Earth force ships

Earth force ships

Postby McAvoy » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:14 am

I was thinking about the Omega class. The one with a rotating section. I am assuming that is not the only area of the ship where there is gravity. The front where they launch the fighters doesn't rotate so probably not without gravity. We can assume the aft part of the ship is without gravity too.

So how do you traverse the ship from one non rotating section of the ship to the rotating. I assume the there are doors that are fairly large for this but to me it seems dangerous. Maybe they stop the rotation or slow it down at certain times.

What about the other ships like the Hyperion or Nova where there are no rotating sections of ship. I assume these ships are fairly short ranged.
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Captain Seafort » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:56 am

McAvoy wrote:So how do you traverse the ship from one non rotating section of the ship to the rotating. I assume the there are doors that are fairly large for this but to me it seems dangerous.


Probably through the zero-g axis along the centreline. You'd just be able to float through.
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Reliant121 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:01 pm

IIRC a Hyperion was the lead ship that engaged the Valen'Tha carrying Dukhat and its support ships; if the fleet was far enough out to intersect the Minbari fleet travelling to Z'Ha'Dum that would imply they are quite long range.
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby McAvoy » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:19 pm

No gravity though so unless Earthforce has medicine or a technique to keep the effects on the body from prolonged exposure to no gravity, I'd say these ships couldn't venture out too long.
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Jim » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:50 am

I do not really remember them talking about many long term missions. Their Explorer ships only had one rotational section I believe.

To transition maybe there is some kind of pod that you would get into (like an elevator) that does the transition.
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Graham Kennedy » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:01 pm

Essentially, you have to go through at the axis. You'd need a tunnel along the axis of rotation, and where it joins the rotating section there would need to be some kind of joint between the two that lets one rotate against the other. Then you can simply float from one to the other. Once into the rotating section you have a door in the cylinder wall, with a ladder leading "down", i.e. towards the outer hull. You see something like that at work in the Discovery in 2001 : A Space Oddysey.

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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Jim » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:18 pm

That video does not fly. Some portion of that middle axis needs to rotate in relation to the living space that he climbs down to. No part of that center axis is rotating in relation. Climbing through would be like one of those giant revolving doors in that the holes would need to line up to go through, but it would be constantly turning. there would be a constant risk of getting sliced in half.
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Graham Kennedy » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:25 pm

No, everything you see is rotating together, including the center part with the door he comes out of. The joint between the rotating axis and what you see would be behind that door.
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Jim » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:35 pm

The central axis must have pieces that continue through the entire length of the shaft in order to keep the structural integrity.

Think of it like a carousel / merry-go-round. If the carousel is the center axis and the earth is the ladder'wall from the rotating section. You climb the ladder to the positionally rotating axis (crawl on the ground to the carousel)... not you are relatively still while the axis is rotating past... you need to transition to the moving axis. You can grab on and hope that it doesn't dislocate your shoulder, or jump on. But that is dangerous and would not help when moving supplies/equipment/etc.

Vice versa... if you are on the carousel it would be like being in the still axis while the world rotates around your center point. To transition from the axis to the rotational section you need to jump off. Same issues as above.

You almost need something like an elevator car with doors at both ends to transition you. The car would be attached to the rotational section with a track around the non-rotating axis shaft. You get it and it starts to move "sideways" along the track until it matches the speed of the rotation (in the opposite direction). It would line up with the opening in the central axis, open and you could pass into the center without getting hit by a wall.
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Jim » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:36 pm

Graham Kennedy wrote:No, everything you see is rotating together, including the center part with the door he comes out of. The joint between the rotating axis and what you see would be behind that door.


No, some part of the center axis need to not be an access hole or else the center is not continuous and would fail.
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Graham Kennedy » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:55 pm

Jim wrote:The central axis must have pieces that continue through the entire length of the shaft in order to keep the structural integrity.

No, you simply need a joint between the two that can take the necessary stresses.

Look, it works like this :

Image

The red striped part is stationary. The blue striped part rotates with the outer hull. All you need is a joint between the red and blue that can take the strains it needs to, and you're good to go. You float down a stationary axial corridor; you reach a section where there's a joint in the walls, and the corridor ahead is rotating around you. You're now in the axis of the rotating hull. You reach the hole, float on out, and climb down the ladder. Hey presto.
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Jim » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:59 pm

Graham Kennedy wrote:No, everything you see is rotating together, including the center part with the door he comes out of. The joint between the rotating axis and what you see would be behind that door.


The living area is rotating to create gravity. The center axis is not rotating. To transition to the rest of the ship the guy would climb up le ladder built into the rotating section. He then needs to somehow go from the moving/rotating section to the non-moving axis.

** As you said, in that video the center axis is rotating along with the gravity section... which is wrong. The area inside the door is not rotating in relation to the rest of the shot. The video only works if the center axis is also rotating in which there would be no need to transition because the entire ship is then rotating.

You can not have a hole around the entire circumference of the axis as that would be like cutting the axis in half, breaking it. Now, if there was an additional solid spire in the middle of that area and he was going in and out of just a "skin" portion, that might work. But in that video there is no such additional center portion. The white axis is only maybe 4 feet across and you can see nearly to the middle of it through the open access door. I grant that you can not see the dead center, but that is where the guy's body was, making it impossible to have a rod/hub through the middle. Also, even if you ant to argue for it (which is possible) the actual non-rotating axis would end up being inches in diameter... meaning the spine of the entire craft is only inches thick. That would be like making the axle of your car a millimeter in diameter.
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Graham Kennedy » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:02 pm

Jim wrote:
Graham Kennedy wrote:No, everything you see is rotating together, including the center part with the door he comes out of. The joint between the rotating axis and what you see would be behind that door.


The living area is rotating to create gravity. The center axis is not rotating. To transition to the rest of the ship the guy would climb up le ladder built into the rotating section. He then needs to somehow go from the moving/rotating section to the non-moving axis.

Right. But the center acis of the rotating section CAN be spinning, as shown above.

** As you said, in that video the center axis is rotating along with the gravity section... which is wrong. The area inside the door is not rotating in relation to the rest of the shot. The video only works if the center axis is also rotating in which there would be no need to transition because the entire ship is then rotating.

No, it's not wrong. It's simply a different implementation of how it would work.

You can not have a hole around the entire circumference of the axis as that would be like cutting the axis in half, breaking it. Now, if there was an additional solid spire in the middle of that area and he was going in and out of just a "skin" portion, that might work. But in that video there is no such additional center portion. The white axis is only maybe 4 feet across and you can see nearly to the middle of it through the open access door. I grant that you can not see the dead center, but that is where the guy's body was, making it impossible to have a rod/hub through the middle. Also, even if you ant to argue for it (which is possible) the actual non-rotating axis would end up being inches in diameter... meaning the spine of the entire craft is only inches thick. That would be like making the axle of your car a millimeter in diameter.

You do not need a single fixed continuous spine. See above.
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Jim » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:06 pm

Graham Kennedy wrote:
Jim wrote:The central axis must have pieces that continue through the entire length of the shaft in order to keep the structural integrity.

No, you simply need a joint between the two that can take the necessary stresses.

Look, it works like this :

Image

The red striped part is stationary. The blue striped part rotates with the outer hull. All you need is a joint between the red and blue that can take the strains it needs to, and you're good to go. You float down a stationary axial corridor; you reach a section where there's a joint in the walls, and the corridor ahead is rotating around you. You're now in the axis of the rotating hull. You reach the hole, float on out, and climb down the ladder. Hey presto.


That works if the rotational portion is at the end of the ship, like an eraser on a pencil. It does not work if it is in the middle of the ship. You would have the command section at the front in red, the middle portion blue and then the engines in the back red. In this situation the front and back are not directly connected.
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Re: Earth force ships

Postby Jim » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:08 pm

Graham Kennedy wrote:You do not need a single fixed continuous spine. See above.


The only way that works is as a horrible and weak attempt to explain something filmed by people that never considered the issue at all.
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