War of the Week : Narn v Earth

War Outcome by vote.

Massive EA Victory
1
10%
Major EA Victory
3
30%
Minor EA Victory
3
30%
EA-NR Stalemate
3
30%
Minor NR Victory
0
No votes
Major NR Victory
0
No votes
Massive NR Victory
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 10

War of the Week : Narn v Earth

Postby Deepcrush » Fri May 04, 2012 8:48 pm

This was a listing that Mark had brought up last year but it got over shadowed I think by all of use in the ST-Sims. Some minor details below but the stage for this will be S2 of B5, height of the Narn just prior to the NR-CR War. As such, the EA has no Shadow Omegas or Poseidens or Warlocks and is restricted to only planets and stations allowed housing of Thunderbolt Starfury squadrons as ships wouldn't have been refitted as yet. Also, I've allowed two votes in this for the following reason. Often in war, there is a winner and loser but even so the winner can't truly over power the loser in the end. So the second vote allows for someone to state they believe one side wins, but the end effect is still similar to a draw and let their votes reflect as such.

Earth Force assets

Omega Class Destroyer - Medium ranged High output pulse/beam particle weapons, high yield fusion warheads, high grade armor plating, class two interceptor system (same as B5 pre-refit), 36 fighters (Aurora, Badger or Thunderbolt). Primary use is as Carrier/Battleship/Command ship.

Nova Class Dreadnought - Short ranged High output pulse plasma weapons, high yield fusion warheads, high grade armor plating, class two interceptor system, 36 fighters (Aurora or Badger). Primary use is as Carrier/Battleship.

Hyperion Class Cruiser - Short ranged Medium output pulse plasma weapons, high yield fusion warheads, medium grade armor plating, class one interceptor system, 6 fighters (Aurora or Badger). Primary use is as short range patrol and escort for larger ships (Omega and Nova).

Olympus Class Corvette - Short ranged Low output pulse plasma weapons, Short ranged Low output rail cannons, Medium ranged Low output missiles, low grade armor plating, class one interceptor system. Primary use is as short range patrol and police duty.

Advantages overall - Armor, the EA uses far more armor on its ships then any other race. Production, the EA has shown an ability to produce more ships then any of the younger races. Fighters, the Starfury is second only to the Minbari Nial fighter. Carriers, all of the modern EA ships such as the Omega and Nova Class carry 36 fighters and the Poseiden carries between 96 and 192 depending on configuration. Interceptors, the EA uses an advanced AA system that not only takes out enemy fighters but enemy weapon's fire.

Narn navel assets

Bin'Tak Class Dreadnought - Very long range very high output particle beam weapons, long range energy mines, low yield fusion warheads, high grade armor plating, 48 Frazi fighters. Primary use is as Carrier/Battleship/Command ship.

G'Quan Class Heavy Cruiser - Very long range high output particle beam weapons, long range energy mines, low yield fusion warheads, high grade armor plating, 12 Frazi fighters. Primary use is as front line warship.

T'nor Class Frigate - short range high output plasma weapons, low yield fusion warheads, medium grade armor plating. Primary use is as system monitor.

Advantages - The primary advantages of the Narn fleet is its long range heavy weaponry and armor. As seen during the Narn-Centari War, Narn ships have ranges that are only exceeded by Shadow Cruisers. This combined with their high armor value makes them ideal for stand off battles. This is almost required as their fighters are built mostly for anti-ship actions and fair poorly at best against the more modern fighter craft in use by the MF, CR and EA.
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Re: War of the Week : Narn v Earth

Postby McAvoy » Fri May 04, 2012 10:07 pm

IMO, Earth with a minor victory. Majority of the fleet destroyed.

Seems like Earth has alot more ships than the Narn. The Narn are perhaps more technologically advanced or at least possesses more advanced technology than Earth.
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Re: War of the Week : Narn v Earth

Postby Deepcrush » Fri May 04, 2012 10:44 pm

Care to share your reasoning and thought process with us?
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Re: War of the Week : Narn v Earth

Postby McAvoy » Fri May 04, 2012 10:55 pm

I got a good buzz going on right now. Maybe later?

I have only seen Babylon 5 three times all the way through. I haven't really analyzed fully the whole universe of Babylon 5. But give me a day or two and I'll give you a reasoning or maybe change my mind about it.
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Re: War of the Week : Narn v Earth

Postby Deepcrush » Fri May 04, 2012 10:57 pm

I'll look forward to it. Hopefully we'll get some other input from our fellow members in that time.
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Re: War of the Week : Narn v Earth

Postby McAvoy » Fri May 04, 2012 10:59 pm

I know where to look. But the one thing that sticks in my mind is when the Narn cruiser actually did damage to a Shadow crabship after sustained fire. I just have to look if I can find something comparable to for the EAS.
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Re: War of the Week : Narn v Earth

Postby Deepcrush » Fri May 04, 2012 11:15 pm

We never see an EF ship fire on a Shadow warship, the closest we do see is the EF ships firing on each other during the Civil War. EF weapons seemed clearly capable of cutting even Omegas apart.
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Re: War of the Week : Narn v Earth

Postby McAvoy » Fri May 04, 2012 11:18 pm

What I meant was looking for something capable like a Narn ship firing on Ship A and the EF firing on Ship and then comparing the damage. Stuff like that.
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Re: War of the Week : Narn v Earth

Postby Deepcrush » Fri May 04, 2012 11:32 pm

Well, both have fired on CRN ships before so that would be a place to watch. Though most the damage to the CRN Primus by the EA was done by a Starfury squadron and the B5 defense grid.
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Re: War of the Week : Narn v Earth

Postby Deepcrush » Sat May 05, 2012 5:54 pm

So who voted the massive EA victory?
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Re: War of the Week : Narn v Earth

Postby Tholian_Avenger » Sun May 06, 2012 5:23 am

This question has merit. Actually, now I start to wonder if EF was really using the Shadows to play the Narn and Centauri.


To enter Earth Alliance space, the Narn will have to capture Babylon 5, destroying it would bring in all the other powers. To board Babylon 5 the Narn's lose their range advantage and that is where the EF ships can murder the Narn task force. While Earth Force holds Babylon 5 it can take Akdor. From Akdor, EF can contest Kotak. The peacenik Centauri Emperor will be unable to restrain Reefa's bunch, who will begin nipping at Narn heels. The League may even act against the Narn. The Kahri will negotiate a peace; the EF can't hold Kotak but will get reparations. I VOTE STALEMATE.

If EF doesn't have Kotak besieged by the time the Markab die off, the fight shifts to Markab territory. The Narn clean EF out of Markab space with long range duels and use it to besiege Proxima, harass Sol and cut off Orion, Vega, Sinazar, Babylon 5, and Akdor. A war weary Earth will negotiate a demilitarized Proxima but cede all of the above listed territories and the Narn will get Markab space.

If the Humans are willing to fight however, their production will increase and they will be able to attrition their way out of a Proxima siege. In the mean time, the Narn will have captured Babylon 5, and wrecked or ruined everything above. EF will have to bloodily slog all the way to the Narn Homeworld to beat the Kahri and the EF will want to quarantine the Narn like the Dilgar. The EF may get the crazy Hybrid cruisers into battle or even direct Shadow assistance near the end. Any technology gained will want to be used against the Minbari.
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Re: War of the Week : Narn v Earth

Postby Reliant121 » Sun May 06, 2012 1:05 pm

I give it a stalemate. It's abundantly clear that the EA has a much larger fleet from the sheer number of Omegas and Hyperions we see all over the shop; each of these ships are powerful in their own right. Omega's can batter one another till the cows come home and even when heavily damaged they continue to fight. The Hyperions too show their power "In The Beginning"; The Hyperion did a fair bit of hurt to a bleedin' Sharlin, and managed to last out better than most can last against the Minbari.

However, the Narn ships are equally capable. Their enormous range advantage could potentially be a significant problem for the EA. The EA point defence system has little trouble with pulse cannons and fighters but it has never once intercepted a beam cannon from any warship; the particle beam cannons on the G'Quan and Bin'tak classes would completely circumnavigate the AA system used on the EA's big warships. If the Narn can keep their distance, they've got the EA licked. That said, EA ships appear faster than Narn ships...

I think its really too hard to tell.
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Re: War of the Week : Narn v Earth

Postby Deepcrush » Sun May 06, 2012 3:17 pm

Tholian_Avenger wrote:To enter Earth Alliance space, the Narn will have to capture Babylon 5, destroying it would bring in all the other powers. To board Babylon 5 the Narn's lose their range advantage and that is where the EF ships can murder the Narn task force. While Earth Force holds Babylon 5 it can take Akdor. From Akdor, EF can contest Kotak. The peacenik Centauri Emperor will be unable to restrain Reefa's bunch, who will begin nipping at Narn heels. The League may even act against the Narn. The Kahri will negotiate a peace; the EF can't hold Kotak but will get reparations. I VOTE STALEMATE.


Three important things to note is that first off you don't have to take anything. You could if you choose simply jump from your Homeworld to your enemies'. Second is that this map is a rough 2D view of a 4D battle area so again you can go where ever there is a hyperspace beacon. Third is that this is just a war between the Narn Regime and Earth Alliance so there's no adding anyone else in. If you were to include local politics into the matter, B5 is in neutral space and not really important in a war against Earth Force. Sending in ships against it would just be a waste of materials.

I can see where your thoughts ran, and I want you to know I give you full credit for very impressive detail, but its still just a conflict between the NR and EA.
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Re: War of the Week : Narn v Earth

Postby Deepcrush » Sun May 06, 2012 3:31 pm

Reliant121 wrote:I give it a stalemate. It's abundantly clear that the EA has a much larger fleet from the sheer number of Omegas and Hyperions we see all over the shop; each of these ships are powerful in their own right. Omega's can batter one another till the cows come home and even when heavily damaged they continue to fight. The Hyperions too show their power "In The Beginning"; The Hyperion did a fair bit of hurt to a bleedin' Sharlin, and managed to last out better than most can last against the Minbari.


That's an important point, the short range cannon on EF ships are extremely deadly. Four pulse hits from a Hyperion knocked out the Minbari flagship even at the edge of their firing range. Important to remember is that the Narn ships are pretty tough and pack serious fire power as well. So this field doesn't fully fall into the EA's favor.

Reliant121 wrote:However, the Narn ships are equally capable. Their enormous range advantage could potentially be a significant problem for the EA. The EA point defence system has little trouble with pulse cannons and fighters but it has never once intercepted a beam cannon from any warship; the particle beam cannons on the G'Quan and Bin'tak classes would completely circumnavigate the AA system used on the EA's big warships. If the Narn can keep their distance, they've got the EA licked. That said, EA ships appear faster than Narn ships...


The problem for the Narn in this is that even with those beam weapons, they have to be facing their targets to use them. Don't forget that the Omegas have similar weapons of their own, though of not equal range it would seem by visual clues. A further problem would be at long range, battles are fighter heavy. While Hyperions only carry six fighters each, the Narn equal carries none. The G'Quan carries 12 fighters (like its Centauri Primus counterpart) but the Omega carries thirty six. What we see for this is that range doesn't always benefit the Narn. That being said, we atleast saw that the Narn have an "okay" AA system. We've seen then take down CR fighters which are only behind the EF and MF fighters in ability.

I replied to both lines separately just so that I could do so without favoring one side or the other. I want to keep my opinions largely out of the thread until its time to call the result.
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Re: War of the Week : Narn v Earth

Postby Tholian_Avenger » Mon May 07, 2012 12:43 am

Whoever the attacker is will have the advantage.
Image
This is how I see this fight.
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