SF Debris Presents...Meet John Sheridan

SF Debris Presents...Meet John Sheridan

Postby Nutso » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:51 am

Opinionated Babylon 5 Episode Guide spends way too much time looking at the first eight episodes of season two, to meet John Sheridan before the Shadow insanity gets too far underway. Minbari are mocked, marriages annulled, and Dwight Schultz accosts diplomats.


Part 1
Part 2
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Re: SF Debris Presents...Meet John Sheridan

Postby Tyyr » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:32 pm

He hit on one of my big issues with the Mimbari visa-via Sheridan. They hated the guy... for fighting back. He did nothing the Mimbari didn't do, ambush, wipe out entire starships, etc. yet they're honorable warriors and he's a monster. Yeah, what kind of evil man would try and fight back while you attempt genocide on his people? Asshole.

At this point in the show the Mimbari really came off as arrogant dickheads.
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Re: SF Debris Presents...Meet John Sheridan

Postby Deepcrush » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:45 pm

Tyyr wrote:He hit on one of my big issues with the Mimbari visa-via Sheridan. They hated the guy... for fighting back. He did nothing the Mimbari didn't do, ambush, wipe out entire starships, etc. yet they're honorable warriors and he's a monster. Yeah, what kind of evil man would try and fight back while you attempt genocide on his people? Asshole.

At this point in the show the Mimbari really came off as arrogant dickheads.


This is one of the points I liked about the Minbari, or B5 in general, was that there was no truly "Good or Bad" race. If you watch In the Beginning, Delenn's mentor summed it all up very well. Where the Religious caste went mad with the death of their leader. The Warrior caste went mad with the hope of an easy victory. Then they got upset when the Humans fought back when most races would have fled. For so long the Minbari were unchallanged in the galaxy and here comes this upstart race that not only picks a fight with them but refused to run away afterwards. Added that the Minbari live with the shame of attempted genocide, I can see why any reminder of that time period is a bad thing. The Minbari more the likely just wanted to forget the whole affair and move on. As soon as JJS took over B5, it was a violent reminder of a past that none of the Minbari ever wanted to admit to.

I've had a personal belief that part of the reason so many Minbari were willing to serve in the Rangers and in the Earth Alliance Civil War was a part of atonement for their earlier actions. The Rangers during the Shadow War were almost entirerly Religious Caste, but during the EACW we see ever larger numbers of Warrior Caste members serving. OOU this could have just been a costume issue, but I'd like to look past that.
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Re: SF Debris Presents...Meet John Sheridan

Postby Nutso » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:16 pm

That a great point regarding the Warrior Caste, Deep. Great memory too: "The Warrior Caste love to win and hates to lose."

I thought the warriors were overcompensating during the EACW because of shame that the Religious and Worker Castes were more willing to fight the Shadows than they were. When Delenn confronted the Grey council in "Severed Dreams," it was the Warrior caste who refused to fight because "the concerns of others are not our concern," or something like that. They only wanted a fight they could win, not a war.
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Re: SF Debris Presents...Meet John Sheridan

Postby Deepcrush » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:30 pm

Pretty much, again the Warrior caste was used to sitting back and looking pretty rather then engaging in battle. They claimed victory over the EA but only after two years of pressed fighting. They stalemated the Religious caste and that was with the Whitestar Fleet being deployed to aid JJS. They were out of date and they knew it.

Again, JJS was the vision of what THEY wanted to be. Where the Warrior caste showed fear for the first time, JJS defied death, twice! Where the Warrior caste avoided war, the Religious caste took their place and helped defeat the Shadows. It really was a time of shame for the Warrior caste and again, everytime JJS was seen or acted or talked to someone, they were reminded of that shame.
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Re: SF Debris Presents...Meet John Sheridan

Postby Deepcrush » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:42 am

Finally got to watch the two parter and when it comes down to JJS... I just can't think of anything I missed.
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Re: SF Debris Presents...Meet John Sheridan

Postby Tyyr » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:03 pm

I definitely like the Mimbari conceptually because they had flaws. You're right, they didn't have any truly good or truly bad races, everyone was somewhere in between. They still acted like dicks about it though.
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Re: SF Debris Presents...Meet John Sheridan

Postby Lighthawk » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:09 pm

The Mimbari warrior caste remind me of the worst types of online gamers. It doesn't matter how often they stomp you into the ground, that one time you actually beat them, they instantly go ballistic about, and start spewing forth any and all excuses possible, mixed with vitriolic commentary about you.

Some people are just really bad losers.
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Re: SF Debris Presents...Meet John Sheridan

Postby Reliant121 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:13 pm

A 1000 years of technological, supposed moral and economic superiority probably has that effect on you.
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Re: SF Debris Presents...Meet John Sheridan

Postby Deepcrush » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:05 am

Reliant121 wrote:A 1000 years of technological, supposed moral and economic superiority probably has that effect on you.


Its not just that but also remember that the Minbari have gone a long long long time without having any real conflict. A thousand years since last Shadow War and unknown hundreds since their defeat of that local cluster that later became their protectorate. Even then that cluster fell in less then a year.

Truth is, they're afraid of fighting and letting anyone see that they can be hurt. The shock that the Humans put them through must have literally stunned their race as a whole. Just think if the navy from Cuba met the US or UK navy out at sea, laid in a surprise punch and then cost either another two whole years just to reach Cuba. Then only to have either government turn around at the moment of victory and surrender.

The Earth-Minbari War ended up being everything the Minbari couldn't bare to be a part of. They attempted genocide against the very race they set out to contact. Their greatest leader since Valen was killed because of the Warrior Caste's mistake of arming weapons and jamming the Earth ships. In the end, they find their races are merged by future history. A future which is almost lost because of how they reacted.

Where the difficulty in the war would rate that of US v Cuba, the historical records will reflect much of what happened between the Europeans and the Native Americans. Its a disgrace that can never be forgiven so many simply want to find ways to shift the blame.
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