Picard: the series as a whole

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T'Pau
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Picard: the series as a whole

Post by T'Pau »

I recently finished watching Picard, and was struck by my feelings about the series as a whole.

My initial impression was, like other CBS All Access attempts at Star Trek, this was going to be an uncomfortable shoe-horning of classic Trek into their vision of the universe. And to a point, that is exactly what it was. So in the same way that I had watched 2 seasons of Discovery, I looked at the show as a sci-fi show and left it at that.

In later episodes, they gave the viewer a calming bath of familiar TNG faces. And while the subject matter was still 'doom and gloom', the balm of a lighter touch and liberal dose of humor, allowed me to take a deep breath and reset my perspective a bit. It somehow felt 'back to normal' and hitting the right sweet spot of entertainment.

Without spoiling the ending, they managed to telegraph basically everything that was going to happen far in advance of the events, with one lovely unexpected moment from a familiar face. And shoe-horned in a possible link to DIscovery, because in the day and age of Marvel-verse, 'we gots to expand the universe to make more $$$'.

As the final credits rolled, I was left with some positive anticipation for a second season, along with a bit of dread that CBSAA will muck it up in the end.
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Re: Picard: the series as a whole

Post by Atekimogus »

Now by and large one has to admit.....it just wasn't very good. Don't even want to go into detail here...it was objectively just mediocre at best and sadly Sir Stewart is really showing his age now. (Actually..he looks still great for his age, but the way he speaks.....that is really were it shows).

The biggest "regret" about the whole series I have - and I do not think it is a spoiler since we saw him on the trailers - is Will Ryker. Simply because I thorougly enjoyed all scenes were he was in. He just stole - imho - the show and had the most badass (very mild though) moment of the whole series.

I found that interesting because during the whole of TNG and the movies...he never was one of my favourite characters. But here he is just so relaxed and sure of himself AND BY FAR the character who talks and acts just....naturlly and not like reading from a script (like Picard...I am sorry but really...NOONE talks like that all the time....) that I do regret that we never got to see a series with him in the lead finally as starship captain.

Shame, as much as I enjoyed his scenes he probably is too old now to do that.....what a missed opportunity.
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Re: Picard: the series as a whole

Post by Graham Kennedy »

One issue I had was that they never really explored what was going on with the Romulans.

So the Romulans had a whole Star Empire. Who knows how many planets - dozens, most likely, if we go with the 150 planet membership of the Federation.

So the loss of Romulus and Remus, whilst a disaster, shouldn't actually have effected them all that much. No more than if the USA lost Washington DC and New York, say.

But we're shown that they're scattered refugees, some living on Earth, some on planets that look like those UN camps you see. It looks like they've become an impoverished, helpless people.

But if that's so, what's with the whole Borg cube thing? Who's paying for that? Why are they doing it in the face of a crippling disaster? Is it the Romulan government? Is there even such a thing as the Romulan government?

And how is there a fleet of over 200 Romulan warbirds running around? Where did they come from, who's crewing them, who's paying for them?

For that matter, why did they even need a Federation fleet to save them all in the first place - why wasn't the Romulan fleet doing that?

None of this was made at all clear, and it's pretty important stuff to the story!
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Re: Picard: the series as a whole

Post by IanKennedy »

I had equally mixed feelings. To start with it was excruciatingly slow. Three whole episodes before we got anywhere. On top of that they destroyed the principal of the federation. The ban on synths and backing out from helping the Romulans. That said as time went on things improved a little, Riker and Troi appearing was good, if a little shoe-horned in. If you're looking for someone who stole the show it would have to be 7 of 9. As for the last few episodes...
  • Bunny-corn!
  • It was interesting to see the synth planet. Odd to see that there was four of the twins (although they were 2 sets of twins).
  • Son of Soong was a break with canon. At least hadn't been mentioned previously with us meeting both the mother and father previously. Nice, though, to see Brent Spiner back in trek
  • I liked the solution to convincing the synths that humans (or biologicals) could be good.
  • I didn't like the fact that the Romulans, sworn enemy of the synths just gave in and left without much of a worry. Feds turn up say boo and of they run. So much for fanatical anti tech people, who will do anything to prevail.
  • Space orchids, really!
  • and the biggest hmm of all. Picard dies, and yet he doesn't.Saw it coming a mile away, right from the moment I saw what they were making, before they even called it a golem
  • Data's farewell, was quite nice to be honest. It was good to give it a little closure after all this time. Although the effects during the shutdown were oddly done. He seemed to grow old and disintegrate
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Re: Picard: the series as a whole

Post by bladela »

yes, it started really slowly, but i think it improves in the later episodes, a lot.

it is far from perfect, but i rather liked it
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Re: Picard: the series as a whole

Post by AlexMcpherson79 »

If your show is so terrible that people who sat through Seasons 1 and 2 of TNG (all forty-plus episodes), stuck with Voyager, Grudgingly accepted Season 1 and 2 of Enterprise, put up with "Star Trekking across the universe except its now on a station" Deep Space Nine's really cringy stuff AND the hard-hitting stuff and mewling of federation/starfleet morals due to huge threats (Section 31/Sloan, the whole dominion war arc), and more... if the people who sat through all that and that perserverence got rewarded eventually with,

TNG: A Matter of Honor, The Measure of a Man, Contagion and Peak Performance in season 2, with my favourite three: Best of Both Worlds, Yesterdays Enterprise, All Good Things,,,

Deep Space Nine: Okay, This started with what I think is a REALLY good Pilot (Best of ALL of the shows! Avery Brooks REALLY set the tone for the show's emotional core, and I count the bit with 'It's Not Linear, but I exist... here...' scenes that STILL get a tear out of me!) and had Duet near the end of the first seasons that had another scene that gets me teared up (Marritza trying to stick with 'I'm Darheel' and breaking down when confronted with 'why are you impersonating your former boss')... but it had... well, plenty of misfires early on. I CRINGE with Move Along Home (despite a fanfiction story using it VERY well, rescuing the plot though not the episode itself), and Babel, but then it had Way of the Warrior, Favor the Bold, Sacrifice of Angels, The entire last seven or so episodes of the season as one running arc, Homefront/Paradise Lost, and then, yes, the WONDERFUL homage, Trials and Tribble-ations,...

Voyager: Voyager had many "meh" to "ugh" episodes, I honestly don't like the execution of any of the first season episodes, and it says a lot that the first decent episode, in my opinion, was Meld - Immediately after the episode, Alliances which is about the Trade Fed... The Trade... the guys who's name sounds like Trade and aren't memorable and apparently they designed the stupid kazon ships...? *gets poked by the actual episode before meld* hush... *starts to strangle it* go back to the hell from whence you came-
Ahem. ... Why do I like Meld? ... Something about strangulation? :laughroll:
Anyway Voyager, eventually.... Eventually... gave us Deadlock, Tuvix and Basics for season 2, and honorable mentions of Future's End (mobile emitter, tuvok in a bandana, the actress who voices Vanellope in Wreck it Ralph in a performance that should have been cringy but oddly wasn't to me)... and of course, Year of Hell, Hope and Fear, Dark Frontier, Drone, Timeless, Relativity, Imperfection.

So with all that... (and enterprise)... yet many can't even watch to the end of a ten-episode run for STP.

I didn't make it. I have not and will not watch the destruction of a whole set of beloved characters.
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Re: Picard: the series as a whole

Post by Atekimogus »

Graham Kennedy wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:15 pm
One issue I had was that they never really explored what was going on with the Romulans.

So the Romulans had a whole Star Empire. Who knows how many planets - dozens, most likely, if we go with the 150 planet membership of the Federation.

So the loss of Romulus and Remus, whilst a disaster, shouldn't actually have effected them all that much. No more than if the USA lost Washington DC and New York, say.

But we're shown that they're scattered refugees, some living on Earth, some on planets that look like those UN camps you see. It looks like they've become an impoverished, helpless people.

But if that's so, what's with the whole Borg cube thing? Who's paying for that? Why are they doing it in the face of a crippling disaster? Is it the Romulan government? Is there even such a thing as the Romulan government?

And how is there a fleet of over 200 Romulan warbirds running around? Where did they come from, who's crewing them, who's paying for them?

For that matter, why did they even need a Federation fleet to save them all in the first place - why wasn't the Romulan fleet doing that?

None of this was made at all clear, and it's pretty important stuff to the story!
Indeed. The whole premise doesn't make any sense. Also, it was never properly explained why Picard was so pissed at Starfleet for not saving the Romulans. Now, let's ignore for a minute the fact that Starfleet (just as well as the Romlans) should have enough ships to evacute Romulus.........we see that - for some reason - this is clearly not the case and they had to BUILD a transport fleet at Mars....which then got destroyed in the Synth attack.

How is ANY of that Starfleets fault? What else COULD they have done after the fact? Having enough time to build a releave fleet is ridicolous anyhow because then...again both the Romulans AND Starfleet on their own surely have enough capacity to facilitate the evacuation.

But again....for some reason, we have to accept that Starfleet needed a seperate transport fleet to do it...which got destroyed. How much more could they have done? It really made Picard coming off as a rambling old man who has no idea anymore what he is talking about.

But it also shows that the Romulans are incredibly stupid. SURELY they could come up with a scheme that will lead to the outlawing of synth live WITHOUT destroying the very fleet which is supposed to help save their people?
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Re: Picard: the series as a whole

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Atekimogus wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:41 pm
But it also shows that the Romulans are incredibly stupid. SURELY they could come up with a scheme that will lead to the outlawing of synth live WITHOUT destroying the very fleet which is supposed to help save their people?
Like, do it a few months later, when the fleet is done and gone?

Another curious thing is that we've literally seen Picard personally let entire civilisations die rather than act to save them, because he considers that a moral part of non-interference. So what changed?
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Re: Picard: the series as a whole

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Graham Kennedy wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:24 am
Another curious thing is that we've literally seen Picard personally let entire civilisations die rather than act to save them, because he considers that a moral part of non-interference. So what changed?
I literally just watched "Homeward" a few days ago, in which Picard advocated precisely that. They shouldn't interfere even if the entire culture was wiped out.
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Re: Picard: the series as a whole

Post by 00111010 01000100 »

Tinadrin Chelnor wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:46 pm
Graham Kennedy wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:24 am
Another curious thing is that we've literally seen Picard personally let entire civilisations die rather than act to save them, because he considers that a moral part of non-interference. So what changed?
I literally just watched "Homeward" a few days ago, in which Picard advocated precisely that. They shouldn't interfere even if the entire culture was wiped out.
Homeward dealt with violating the prime directive (interfering+interacting with a non-space fairing race and potentially contaminating their natural development). Assisting the Romulans would not violate directive one since they already were space fairing, technologically advanced species and it wouldn’t contaminate them.
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Re: Picard: the series as a whole

Post by 00111010 01000100 »

I miss him. I’ll miss his counter points and arguments.
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Re: Picard: the series as a whole

Post by Tinadrin Chelnor »

00111010 01000100 wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 5:39 am
Homeward dealt with violating the prime directive (interfering+interacting with a non-space fairing race and potentially contaminating their natural development). Assisting the Romulans would not violate directive one since they already were space fairing, technologically advanced species and it wouldn’t contaminate them.
I concede the point, it does seem that it says:

"Helping a society escape a natural disaster known to the society, even if inaction would result in a society's extinction, unless the society had warp technology and had formally requested aid."

- Thus as the Romulans are warp-capable, adn were open to Federation assistance, the Directive did not apply.
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Re: Picard: the series as a whole

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The Romulan status didn't make a whole lot of sense, I agree. I think they said a star near the Romulan world went super nova, so maybe more stars were affected? I agree though, they need to explain that, have it descend into a decade of civil war or something. They can still call 200+ ships, though smaller than the larger TNG warbirds and do the Borg cube thing, so they certainly have a Star Empire. So what are the refugees? Losers of the civil war? Needs to be explained.

I really liked the AI Empire stretching Galaxies. I think if you look at Q or the some of the non-corporeal races as the end result of biologicals then it makes sense to question what happens to synthetic life. Though, personally I don't see much difference in life from true AI and biological, both are sentient thinking beings with every possibility of becoming greater that we see in Star Trek. Star Trek in the past has respected this, Data is a symbol of this. It does make sense for AI to be hunted and have AI powers form, but it also makes sense that they, as other intelligent life, move past violence and ascend themselves. The evolutionary process of turning an amoeba into a stellar omniscient cloud called a Q doesn't seem any less likely than turning an ENIAC into a Q.

Sci-Fis in general seem to shy away from multi-galactic empires but there's other galaxies closer to Earth than the far side of the Milky Way. This barrier exists in Star Trek's Milky Way due to the TOS but it doesn't have to exist everywhere else and with 2 trillion Galaxies, there's bound to be other multi-galactic empires out there, AI and otherwise.
My biggest issue is why didn't Picard die? It was a beautiful death. He should have died, had the scene with Data and together they enter the great beyond. Have this be a one season special and end it. Season 2 can be called Seven and follow her. Drove me nuts that Picard survived.
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Re: Picard: the series as a whole

Post by Monroe »

Graham Kennedy wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:24 am
Another curious thing is that we've literally seen Picard personally let entire civilisations die rather than act to save them, because he considers that a moral part of non-interference. So what changed?
That's always bothered me greatly and the one reason I'd much rather there be a Union of Planets than an United Federation of Planets. Orville gets it right.
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Re: Picard: the series as a whole

Post by 00111010 01000100 »

Monroe wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 9:27 pm
The Romulan status didn't make a whole lot of sense, I agree. I think they said a star near the Romulan world went super nova, so maybe more stars were affected?
It bothered me too until I learned about Super Luminous Supernovae (SLSN). A standard Type 1A supernovae has a potential kill radius of 30-50 light years where as a SLSN has a kill radius of 500-1000 light years. Imagine a region of space, 1,000 light years across. Having all life eradicated within that area. Did the script say that’s what it was? No. Lol. It it possible for a star to explode and do what the movie and show said it did (wipe out the romulan empire)? Yes.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/ ... 0/257.full
Insanely powerful explosion of light!
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