Picard spoileriffic discussion of the actual episodes

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Re: Picard spoileriffic discussion of the actual episodes

Postby Sonic Glitch » Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:51 pm

For the last time: the 25% different is bullshit.

CBS always retained the TV Rights and licensing rights. Paramount had to pay them for Kirk and Spock etc. for the new films.

Also in the comics it is established that his romulan companions are prior Tal Shiar.


And in the C-in-C's defense, Picard did just go on interstellar TV the other day and accuse her of not doing her duty. I'd be miffed too.

That said, I agree Nechayev would have been a natural fit but I don't mind that they introduced a new character.

And once again, the show was never meant to be TNG 2.0. Indeed Stewart was never interested in TNG 2.0. How do people keep missing this?
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Re: Picard spoileriffic discussion of the actual episodes

Postby Graham Kennedy » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:53 pm

Sonic Glitch wrote:For the last time: the 25% different is bullshit.

So you say.

Also in the comics it is established that his romulan companions are prior Tal Shiar.

Okay.


That said, I agree Nechayev would have been a natural fit but I don't mind that they introduced a new character.

I didn't mind, particularly. Just seemed like a small missed opportunity.

And once again, the show was never meant to be TNG 2.0. Indeed Stewart was never interested in TNG 2.0. How do people keep missing this?

Who's missing it? I can be disappointed that it isn't, and see it as a failing, regardless of what Stewart or anybody else intended.
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Re: Picard spoileriffic discussion of the actual episodes

Postby Sonic Glitch » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:57 am

Graham Kennedy wrote:
Sonic Glitch wrote:For the last time: the 25% different is bullshit.

So you say.


Well I'm at least as qualified as a youtuber :poke:

But also, so says CBS and anyone who can take 5 minutes to google...

And once again, the show was never meant to be TNG 2.0. Indeed Stewart was never interested in TNG 2.0. How do people keep missing this?

Who's missing it? I can be disappointed that it isn't, and see it as a failing, regardless of what Stewart or anybody else intended.[/quote]
That's fair. I tend to see people bring it up like a terrible strike against it, "It's not TNG 2.0" and it just strikes me as a funny thing to keep bringing up because ... we know. Anyone who was paying any attention to the production news noticed they are very adamant about that. It looks to me like people looking for reasons to be angry rather than trying to see and evaluate it for what it is. Thete's room for more than one genre in the Trek universe.


That said hopefully "Lower Decks: The Musical Series" will give us something more traditionally TNG. Or if we ever get a Captain Pike show -- explore some space oddities of the 23rd century.
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Re: Picard spoileriffic discussion of the actual episodes

Postby Graham Kennedy » Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:11 pm

Sonic Glitch wrote:
Graham Kennedy wrote:
Sonic Glitch wrote:For the last time: the 25% different is bullshit.

So you say.


Well I'm at least as qualified as a youtuber :poke:

But also, so says CBS and anyone who can take 5 minutes to google...

I wouldn't believe CBS if they said water was wet.

Who's missing it? I can be disappointed that it isn't, and see it as a failing, regardless of what Stewart or anybody else intended.

That's fair. I tend to see people bring it up like a terrible strike against it, "It's not TNG 2.0" and it just strikes me as a funny thing to keep bringing up because ... we know. Anyone who was paying any attention to the production news noticed they are very adamant about that. It looks to me like people looking for reasons to be angry rather than trying to see and evaluate it for what it is. Thete's room for more than one genre in the Trek universe.[/quote]
Well it doesn't look like that to me.
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Re: Picard spoileriffic discussion of the actual episodes

Postby DSG2k » Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:31 am

The 25% thing isn't "bullshit", though there are claims about it which go too far. It is unquestionable that the art department had such orders regarding the Discoprise and, IIRC, other designs. Eaves and a cohort both said so before they were ordered to remove the comments.

The "claims" part comes as a result of folks trying to tack that on to the bogus "alternate license" claim. That is to say, the assumption that the 25% order was part of a legal requirement is a hypothesis, nothing more. It could just as easily be a misinterpretation of something or purely unique idea by the person giving the art department guys (who work from home) their orders, remotely.

That said, even with the use of unchanged elements (e.g. combadge, E-D, uniforms (albeit ill-fitting now)), this show is firmly a part of the CBS canon, not the Star Trek Original Universe. The STOU is, sadly, a closed canon.

http://canonwars.blogspot.com/2018/10/d ... nuity.html
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Re: Picard spoileriffic discussion of the actual episodes

Postby AlexMcpherson79 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:09 am

... So basically, Kurtzman basically implied in that interview that for Star Trek Picard...
unless stated otherwise, James Kirk was actually still alive as per the 'shatnerverse' books (I have read the first six, but none after that) ... because those books established his 'return' AFTER generations, and nothing 'on screen' contradicted that.

... So Bill can actually return to Trek for STP!
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Re: Picard spoileriffic discussion of the actual episodes

Postby Graham Kennedy » Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:02 pm

Much as I love Shatner, I honestly don't like the idea of him being part of Trek again. I'm not a fan of people coming back from the dead in general - nothing undercuts your show like saying "he's in danger, but so what? If he dies it doesn't matter because he'll just come back." But also, I can't imagine any scenario with Shatner in a new Trek show or movie that wouldn't feel horribly contrived and gimmicky. Just let it be.
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Re: Picard spoileriffic discussion of the actual episodes

Postby AlexMcpherson79 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:23 am

yyeah, I wasn't saying it was a good thing, though yes, I did like those books. Bill has been a caracature of himself for some time.
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Re: Picard spoileriffic discussion of the actual episodes

Postby DSG2k » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:49 pm

AlexMcpherson79 wrote:unless stated otherwise, James Kirk was actually still alive as per the 'shatnerverse'


That's but one of many novel continuities. Rest assured that if they ever bring back Shatner-Kirk in the CBS Canon, it will be sillier even than that.

Of course, now that the glass bottom was broken by Star Wars, they could just say "the dead speak!" and have Picard see Shatner-Kirk hooked up to Romulan Borg tech, the shadowy figure behind it all, his own post-Norman, post-Korby disdain for "synths" the secret reason he sought to put all these pieces into play.

Oh crap, they're gonna try to hire me now.

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Re: Picard spoileriffic discussion of the actual episodes

Postby DarkMoineau » Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:10 am

Even in the darkest hours, CBS never felt so low than Lucasfilm...
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Re: Picard spoileriffic discussion of the actual episodes

Postby Graham Kennedy » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:41 pm

So ep 3.

Again, not a whole lot to say. Most of the episode just carried on with what's already established - the Romulan hit squad turns up again (doesn't do too well this time), we see more about the rescue mission and "synth" uprising. Why don't they call them Androids, anyway? And now we have people smoking drugs in Trek. That felt a bit strange.

Synth girl is still working away on the cube. They raise the issue of what caused it to go kablooey. I'm guessing that will turn out to be Hugh and his pesky individuality.

The pace of this show is glacial. At least they're (finally!) in space now, with their little rag tag crew on the ship, so things should hopefully speed up a bit.
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Re: Picard spoileriffic discussion of the actual episodes

Postby AlexMcpherson79 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:30 am

Graham Kennedy wrote:So ep 3.

Again, not a whole lot to say. Most of the episode just carried on with what's already established - the Romulan hit squad turns up again (doesn't do too well this time), we see more about the rescue mission and "synth" uprising. Why don't they call them Androids, anyway? And now we have people smoking drugs in Trek. That felt a bit strange.

Synth girl is still working away on the cube. They raise the issue of what caused it to go kablooey. I'm guessing that will turn out to be Hugh and his pesky individuality.

The pace of this show is glacial. At least they're (finally!) in space now, with their little rag tag crew on the ship, so things should hopefully speed up a bit.


Yeah, whats-her-name smoking really pulled me out of it. the 'synth' is getting annoying because aren't Holograms also synthetic lifeforms of a sort? So does that mean that The Doctor was deactivated? Dr Jurati getting interviewed... then showing up EXACTLY when the hit squad came is rather... suspicious timing. I WAS expecting her to go "Yeah Commodore Oh had me captive and because I wouldnt answer questions had me watch but then your little fight back let me escape blabla" but then I realised that this is from the people who use STD assets instead of era-canon assets, so naah, its just a coincidence she delayed between commodore oh's interog-interview and arriving just long enough that Oh decided to send a hit squad after picard, arrange the team, get the intel on layout, work out how to disable alarms with the first shot...

and of course, that said shot has an awkward little thing where that male former tal shiar just happened to drop the plums was it EXACTLY when the first shot happened... which is usually used in tv and film for one of two things - either a character who is a plucky happy-go-lucky, possibly unaware having AMAZING and/or hilarious timing, or someone who is secretly a bad guy and expected the shot. But this is again from the people who thought STD was a good idea, so...

Still hitting on that problem of... I LIKE this show... so long as I don't consider it Star Trek. I liked Enterprise, Voyager, DS9, TNG. To me DS9 was Still Star Trek, just tonally different to TNG, and Voyager was... well TNG with fewer Arcs beyond the trek typical of 'character trying to be human' (get home, paris' going from rebel to the only married man on board (-with his wife) etc, and if anything, almost as episodic as TNG and the original series.

If I consider this show as 'Star Trek, just tonally differen't like with DS9, so there's precedent even there... I hate it.
If I DONT consider this show as Star trek... as... okay... as a Reboot/Reimagining - that is like what RDM did with Battlestar Galactica, and not as a continuation of TNG/DS9/Voyager... THEN I like it.

I agree on the pace. 3 episodes... and FINALLY picard warps out of orbit. (Warp... In a Solar System?! okay not much of an issue for me on the warping from orbit... so much as the use of the STD effect for warping.)
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Re: Picard spoileriffic discussion of the actual episodes

Postby DSG2k » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:53 pm

From what I hear at Flare and elsewhere there's a Vulcan commodore who wears sunglasses on Earth.

I guess she's ready for JJ lens flares overwhelming her Vulcan extra eyelid?
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Re: Picard spoileriffic discussion of the actual episodes

Postby Graham Kennedy » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:43 pm

AlexMcpherson79 wrote:
Graham Kennedy wrote:So ep 3.

Again, not a whole lot to say. Most of the episode just carried on with what's already established - the Romulan hit squad turns up again (doesn't do too well this time), we see more about the rescue mission and "synth" uprising. Why don't they call them Androids, anyway? And now we have people smoking drugs in Trek. That felt a bit strange.

Synth girl is still working away on the cube. They raise the issue of what caused it to go kablooey. I'm guessing that will turn out to be Hugh and his pesky individuality.

The pace of this show is glacial. At least they're (finally!) in space now, with their little rag tag crew on the ship, so things should hopefully speed up a bit.


Yeah, whats-her-name smoking really pulled me out of it. the 'synth' is getting annoying because aren't Holograms also synthetic lifeforms of a sort? So does that mean that The Doctor was deactivated?

I assume not, because we've seen two holographic people active in the show.

If I consider this show as 'Star Trek, just tonally differen't like with DS9, so there's precedent even there... I hate it.
If I DONT consider this show as Star trek... as... okay... as a Reboot/Reimagining - that is like what RDM did with Battlestar Galactica, and not as a continuation of TNG/DS9/Voyager... THEN I like it.

I can't say I've found anything to really like in the show, honestly. I'd say Stewart, but the man really looks and sound seriously old now, and I find it kind of distracting. On the other hand I hate the Discovery crap they've put in, but there hasn't been all that much of it, and at least some of it looks more at home in the post-TNG era. But overall so far it's a resounding "meh" from me.

I agree on the pace. 3 episodes... and FINALLY picard warps out of orbit. (Warp... In a Solar System?! okay not much of an issue for me on the warping from orbit... so much as the use of the STD effect for warping.)

Trek has been warping out of orbit since day one. It was absolutely standard procedure in TOS, and happened dozens of times throughout TNG and beyond. I tend to just ignore the, I think two, instances where it's suddenly some great danger as just weird writing anomalies.

And yeah, as that ship wound up to fly away I made a mental bet that it would do the "bullet out of a gun" effect JJ loves so much. *sigh*

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Re: Picard spoileriffic discussion of the actual episodes

Postby Graham Kennedy » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:13 pm

Ep 4.

Still slow moving. We're introduced to the guy the rumours called the "Romulan Legolas". It's a nice touch that Picard got him started on swords, a reference to how Picard was seen a few times engaging in fencing in TNG. But meeting him and getting him to go along... that's like 3/4 of the episode.

Also nice to see something that looks like a proper Romulan Warbird. I've never been a fan of the Disco-verse ships. I'm not a fan of the one Picard is going around in, it's got the "generic sci-fi" look down pat. The Romulan Warbird really stood out as a cool design in comparison.

Seven of Nine makes her appearance.

Ugh, Picard says "Data had two offspring." Poor Lal.

Reference to Spot. Nice. Felis Catus is they taxonomic nomelclature... :)

On nit I have is that they keep doing flashbacks, and they never try any kind of de-ageing on Stewart. You could get away with that 20 years ago, because the man was pretty much ageless. But he's really looking and sounding his years now, so it's really weird when they flash back 14 years and he looks the same. That was especially true in this episode. We have flashbacks to him being around this group of Romulan nuns or whatever they are, and then he goes back to them in the present day. "You got old," she tells him. No he didn't - he looks exactly the same as when you last saw him!

Still bothers me to see Picard called "J-L". No way that would happen.

All in all, probably the best episode so far.
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