Should DITL now include Discovery?

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Should DITL now include Discovery?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:39 pm

So as you know, DITL hasn't touched Discovery except for having polls about it.

However, I am thinking of changing that. Why? Because as far as I can see, Discovery is now confirmed as being part of a non-Prime timeline. The appearance of the USS Enterprise, looking markedly different from the Prime one, says to me that Discovery is an alternate timeline.

So if I did include stuff, it would be on that basis. Another timeline.

The question would be, is it the JJ Verse or a different one?

Best I know, the earliest event referenced in Discovery is Burnham meeting Sarek in the early 2230s. So that's potentially after Nero arrived in 2233... or not.

What do we think? JJ, or not JJ?
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Re: Should DITL now include Discovery?

Postby DonP » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:13 pm

From everything I see, it can't be JJ. The JJprise won't be launched for another two years and while this Enterprise doesn't really look like the Prime, it looks even less like the JJ. Only leaves yet another alternate.
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Re: Should DITL now include Discovery?

Postby Mikey » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:44 pm

If we are positing alternate universes, I see no reason to identify the DSC-verse with the JJ-verse.
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Re: Should DITL now include Discovery?

Postby Mikey » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:09 pm

Sorry, just thinking; notwithstanding the bullshit about DSC Klingons having different genomes for different houses, wouldn’t the complete dissimilarity between JJ Klingons and DSC Klingons be evidence for separate universes?
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Re: Should DITL now include Discovery?

Postby DarkMoineau » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:38 pm

Well well well.... Klingon being different is still stupid and make no sense but for the Enterprise being different it would be easy to explain in two ways:

FIRST: the Enterprise didn't visit any station and did not update weapon and uniforms during the five years mission in which the Cage happen.

Second: they updated styke because Discovery is not targeted at us, but try to expand our numbers by targeting new public.
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Re: Should DITL now include Discovery?

Postby Mikey » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:52 pm

FIRST: This is obviated by the fact that ENT addressed the Klingon Forehead Problem, albeit clumsily, IU.

SECOND: The obvious OOU reasons for why DSC did what it did don’t change the fact of it occurring IU.
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Re: Should DITL now include Discovery?

Postby DarkMoineau » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:07 pm

Mikey wrote:FIRST: This is obviated by the fact that ENT addressed the Klingon Forehead Problem, albeit clumsily, IU.



That's a real issue. DISC always reference ENT but do not respect that point.
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Re: Should DITL now include Discovery?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:36 pm

Mikey wrote:If we are positing alternate universes, I see no reason to identify the DSC-verse with the JJ-verse.

There are a fair few visual links between the two. The "bullet warp jump" effect, the "pew pew" phasers and combat model, the big bridge windows on the ship, etc.

Sorry, just thinking; notwithstanding the bullshit about DSC Klingons having different genomes for different houses, wouldn’t the complete dissimilarity between JJ Klingons and DSC Klingons be evidence for separate universes?

That is a good point. The JJ Klingons can be reconciled, just, with the real thing. But the Klingorcs are out of place in any established universe.

Which would make Discovery a wholly new universe. I could buy that. The Disco universe!
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Re: Should DITL now include Discovery?

Postby Sonic Glitch » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:39 pm

Are we going to blatantly ignore the production word of God that it is in the prime universe? Are we as a community so arrogant as to think we know better than the production company?
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Re: Should DITL now include Discovery?

Postby Mikey » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:57 pm

Sonic Glitch wrote:Are we going to blatantly ignore the production word of God that it is in the prime universe? Are we as a community so arrogant as to think we know better than the production company?


Yep.
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Re: Should DITL now include Discovery?

Postby DonP » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:10 pm

Given the pretty overwhelming evidence that they don't give a wet monkey crap abut us, I'm going with yep.
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Re: Should DITL now include Discovery?

Postby Sonic Glitch » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:21 pm

And I thought the Star Wars fans bitching about the Last Jedi were bad.


"Markedly different?" I actually think the new Enterprise looks remarkably more respectful of the Cage version. They made some things glow that didn't before (curse there extra effects budget! Childhood ruined) and redid the impulse engines a bit, which frankly it's comparatively minor compared to the JJ Prise.
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Re: Should DITL now include Discovery?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:33 pm

Sonic Glitch wrote:Are we going to blatantly ignore the production word of God that it is in the prime universe? Are we as a community so arrogant as to think we know better than the production company?

I don't see why not. They ignore us, after all.

More seriously and less snidely... behind the scenes interviews given by producers are not and never have been regarded as canonical, yes? So why shouldn't they be ignored? They always have been.

And I have no problem taking the producers on-screen choices over their behind the scenes claims.
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Re: Should DITL now include Discovery?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:39 pm

Sonic Glitch wrote:And I thought the Star Wars fans bitching about the Last Jedi were bad.


"Markedly different?" I actually think the new Enterprise looks remarkably more respectful of the Cage version. They made some things glow that didn't before (curse there extra effects budget! Childhood ruined) and redid the impulse engines a bit, which frankly it's comparatively minor compared to the JJ Prise.

And slanted the nacelle pylons back. And reshaped the aft end of the engineering hull. And lowered the saucer and nacelles closer to the body. And added considerable structure to the back third or so of the saucer. And added another shuttlebay between the impulse engines. And reshaped elements of the nacelles.

And that's just at first glance.

It's fine, as a "here's what it would look like if it were done today" kind of deal, which is what I suspect the producers have in mind when they say they're "sticking to canon'. But do you really think that the ship we saw in The Cage two years before was rebuilt into this? And then rebuilt back into Kirk's TOS ship? And then rebuilt again into the TMP refit?

Honestly asking, is that your take on what is supposed to have happened to this ship?
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Re: Should DITL now include Discovery?

Postby Tinadrin Chelnor » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:47 pm

I would consider Discovery to be an alternate universe from Prime and JJVerse. But I'd definitely like to see Discovery information on this site.
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