True Trek Discovery

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True Trek Discovery

Postby Teaos » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:25 pm

So lets assume that for once they put Star Trek in the hands of people who actually liked Star Trek more than their own sense of self worth.

We as a collective get hired to showrun the new Trek.

Unfortunately the studio with the money insists on a few things that they won't budge on... and they have the $$$

* Must be set in the time frame STD is.
* Must have the current collective of character bios (We can recast and have them act differently than so far portrayed, but we still have neo Spock ect)
* Must use Klingons at least in first season or two as primary antagonist.

They say this is to act as a hook to old Trek and show continuity.

Basically, given the frame work set up for STD (Which I know many of us disagree with in general) how do we make STD hold to what we consider true trek, while still making a interesting, successful show that attracts both old and new fans.
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Re: True Trek Discovery

Postby Graham Kennedy » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:45 pm

1) Adopt the look of True Trek... with some updating. For instance, I don't require the costumes to be the 1960s version; I thought the update of the TOS costume done for Jaybrams movie was just fine as a modern implementation of that uniform, and would accept something on those lines. But no bridge windows, no "pew pew" phasers, no "bullet warping", etc.

2) Similar updates for the Cage weapons, etc.

3) Discovery to be a Constitution class ship, or predecessor to one. Again, fine with some modernisation here - there are plenty of fan versions of the Connie kicking around that would be fine.

4) Get the rights to the Franz Joseph designs and incorporate suitably updated versions into the show to pad Starfleet out.

5) Turn the damn lights on and buy the cameraman a spirit level.

6) REAL KLINGONS. I cannot emphasise this enough! Smooth headed Klingons!

7) Scrap the first two episodes. They tell a story that doesn't need to be told, and are not actually a pilot episode. Open the whole show on the shuttle as Ep 3 did. In fact, somebody suggested recently on the latest Midnight's Edge podcast - use those two episodes as a prequel to the series, to be broadcast during the mid-season break. Imagine watching the first half of the season, going a few weeks without, and then getting told "Oh, here's what happened to Burnham to get her onto the prison transport..."

8) Rewrite Burnham to be more likeable. Frankly, they need a better actress in the part. The character needs to be looser and lighter and more fun. Show her being smart and right! Kirk gets away with bucking authority because we like him, and because he's right. Burnham, as depicted in the pilot episodes, is constantly stupid and wrong, whilst everyone around her tells us how smart and fantastic she is. Worse, she brags on it herself. NEVER have a character boasting about how good they are!

9) Abolish all traces of Section 31. As far as your show is concerned there is no such thing.
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Re: True Trek Discovery

Postby T'Pau » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:49 pm

Turn the lights ON, but lose the lense flares!

Otherwise, totally agree with what Graham suggested.
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Re: True Trek Discovery

Postby DonP » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:55 pm

Most important, from my perspective, is to recognize that we're working in an already established framework. The look, the level of technology, certain aspects of character backgrounds, those things have already been established and must be maintained. That doesn't rule out updates that recognizably represent the same thing, like the Abrams update of the TOS uniforms, but anything beyond that needs a very good reason that needs to be spelled out from the beginning.

Within that framework, I actually think the writers can go crazy (as long as it makes sense). Just give me a reason to like or care about any of the characters and don't totally ignore physics.
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Re: True Trek Discovery

Postby Reliant121 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:18 pm

Throw the lead out the window. She's as likable as an ironing board and has none of the nuanced subtlety that a character of her upbringing and position should have. Spock is so likable because he maintains an almost perfect visage most of the time; it's the fleeting moments when that persona cracks that make him such a likable character. Michael is a character with a potentially fascinating backstory that's been done in such a hamfisted way and acted out by an actress completely out of her depth. it's a real shame.

Michelle Yeoh is talented actress and, despite being killed off, was the person I liked most throughout all three eps. Remodel it to focus on her I say.
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Re: True Trek Discovery

Postby Mikey » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:00 pm

Agreed with the bulk of GK's post, which boils down to: There is no reason to shit on the established cosmetics of the milieu. The other bit I would change is the "feel" of the protagonistic forces; the show doesn't need to rush quite so headlong into armed conflict. While there was enough of that in TOS, it still felt optimistic, like peace and positivity were the overarching goals. While Roddenberry's presence was a driving force behind that attitude, it is still a hallmark of true 'Trek.
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Re: True Trek Discovery

Postby Graham Kennedy » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:59 am

Here's a wild thought.

One thing that really bothers me is that this Sarek supports Burnham being in Starfleet. Yet Spock joined Starfleet the year before the first Discovery episode - and Sarek opposed it so much that he didn't speak to Spock for ten years and didn't admit he might be wrong for twenty years after that. So it makes Sarek look like a hypocrite.

But what if... say you moved Discovery back by about 20 years. No problem with that, Sarek was over a century old in TOS. And I don't know that there's any established dates for the Klingon hostilities, so you can have battles with them any time. Amanda might be a problem... but no need to even include her if you don't want to.

So Burnham joins Starfleet. Sarek supports her. You follow her through Discovery... and then in the end, she dies. Sarek takes this hard... so hard that he never even mentions Burnham to Spock or Amanda. Spock grows up never even knowing Sarek had a "human daughter".

And when Spock joins Starfleet... Sarek opposes it because he can't bear the idea of losing Spock, too, the way he lost Burnham.

That makes soooo much more sense to me!
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Re: True Trek Discovery

Postby DarkMoineau » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:07 am

Graham Kennedy wrote:1) Adopt the look of True Trek... with some updating. For instance, I don't require the costumes to be the 1960s version; I thought the update of the TOS costume done for Jaybrams movie was just fine as a modern implementation of that uniform, and would accept something on those lines. But no bridge windows, no "pew pew" phasers, no "bullet warping", etc.

2) Similar updates for the Cage weapons, etc.

3) Discovery to be a Constitution class ship, or predecessor to one. Again, fine with some modernisation here - there are plenty of fan versions of the Connie kicking around that would be fine.

4) Get the rights to the Franz Joseph designs and incorporate suitably updated versions into the show to pad Starfleet out.

5) Turn the damn lights on and buy the cameraman a spirit level.

6) REAL KLINGONS. I cannot emphasise this enough! Smooth headed Klingons!

7) Scrap the first two episodes. They tell a story that doesn't need to be told, and are not actually a pilot episode. Open the whole show on the shuttle as Ep 3 did. In fact, somebody suggested recently on the latest Midnight's Edge podcast - use those two episodes as a prequel to the series, to be broadcast during the mid-season break. Imagine watching the first half of the season, going a few weeks without, and then getting told "Oh, here's what happened to Burnham to get her onto the prison transport..."

8) Rewrite Burnham to be more likeable. Frankly, they need a better actress in the part. The character needs to be looser and lighter and more fun. Show her being smart and right! Kirk gets away with bucking authority because we like him, and because he's right. Burnham, as depicted in the pilot episodes, is constantly stupid and wrong, whilst everyone around her tells us how smart and fantastic she is. Worse, she brags on it herself. NEVER have a character boasting about how good they are!

9) Abolish all traces of Section 31. As far as your show is concerned there is no such thing.



I completly agree about the Sarek part.

Here what are my reactions to what you say and what I would do if following your path:

1) Completyl agree
2) same
3) you clearly have to create ships so follow existing style but updated (Shenzou could make a good intermediary between NX and a TOS Miranda)
4) Again I agree
5) Yeah it's justified for episode 3 but not the others
6) I think we go to fast from smooth headed Klingons to Klingons : I think we should have Klingons showing different heads with the older being smooth but not the younger, specialy if we stay in 2256.
7) I keep the episodes: Just because I like having an introduction to the war with the Klingons! ^^
8) If Burnham stay as Sarek adoptive daughter she must stay the same. I don't know the actress in other roles but she does not shock me more than Seven of Nine.
9) Section 31 exist, ENT showed it. But it is secret so use it with parcimony.

And what I would do with just the rules of Teaos:

The show must be between ENT and TOS? Put it between 2230 and 2245 : tehcnology must be evolved enough to feel TOS but it can't happen in the same time than The Cage if you want some creativity, specialy about accessories and costumes. And in the end you have the Constitution and Miranda class kicking Klingon ass (a necessity as theses design are still usefull 20 years laters and can be upgraded to stay useful 40 years later (I am pretty sure all the Miranda in Dominion war were the second batch built after V'Ger incident, just like Graham numbers show) where D-7 were just enough against a Constitution in 2266 and the remplacement started a moment before the refited Enterprise leaved drydock... and just matched the refitted connue.

I have no issue with the current characters, making them 10 years older would not change at much (Sarek would be old enough, Burnham could have witnessed Amanda's pregnancy but is this an issue? It will be give more time to have Sarek changing his mind about Starfleet and not wanting to see Spock follow her sister path 10 years after her (Spock would enter Academy after Micheal demise, keeping the relationship secret to not have negative impact on scholarship and career would be logical).

As I said, having Klingons as antagonist is not an issue for me.... But my Star Trek Discovery really looks like Axanar now ^^
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