S35E2: Into the Dalek [spoilers]

S35E2: Into the Dalek [spoilers]

Postby Captain Seafort » Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:29 pm

Starts at 1930 BST
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Re: S35E2: Into the Dalek [spoilers]

Postby Graham Kennedy » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:56 pm

Loved it.

It had a few things in common with Season 1's "Dalek", but I thought it was different enough that it didn't bother me. The idea of climbing around inside the Dalek was cool. Interesting scale they chose, too - not so tiny that they were walking past cells and such like in Fantastic Voyage, just small enough to make the Dalek building sized.

Loved Doctor's "Nice idea, would make a good movie" to the miniaturisation idea. And there were several moments of the new edgier Doctor, reacting with pragmatism bordering on indifference to people's deaths.

Loved the climax too - one of the things that made it different enough from "Dalek". In that, the Dalek learned to appreciate humanity and killed itself because it couldn't cope with it. In this, the Dalek scans the Doctor's brain... and learns to hate and kill again from him. Fitted in well with the "Am I a good man" question. In some ways, he truly isn't - especially this one. But as Clara says, he tries to be, and that's enough.

The episode dwelled a lot on soldiers, too, which I found interesting. The Doctor has never been the greatest fan of soldiers, but he's also never been outright opposed to them - he spent a long time working with UNIT and was happy to be side by side with soldiers, after all. Clearly he thought soldier girl was suitable companion material... but rejected her purely because she was a soldier. Interesting.

And Clara's soldier guy. Clearly a troubled past going on there, hints of PTSD or similar going on with him. Obviously they have something in mind for him, will be interesting to see what it is. Seems to me that he will end up in the Tardis eventually.

And Clara doesn't travel with the Doctor. She's always been a bit like that, living her own life and dropping in on him as needed. A trend in recent companions, Amy and Rory did the same thing somewhat. Really there's no reason not to, if you have a machine like the Tardis handy - apart from the odd accident where somebody loses a few years here and there.
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Re: S35E2: Into the Dalek [spoilers]

Postby Nutso » Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:10 am

A Dalek who kills Daleks. Beginning of The Second Empire?

Image

I actually thought he was going to take Blue with him. I'm okay with being wrong but, the thing is she did disobey orders for The Doctor's plan. And previously another soldier, Gretchen, sacrificed herself for this plan after Clara assures her The Doctor is both mad and right. He's worked with U.N.I.T. many times. So what is this thing against soldiers? I think Danny Pink might factor into this later on with his PTSD.

Is Missy inside The Doctor? The Doctor's own PTSD?
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Re: S35E2: Into the Dalek [spoilers]

Postby Griffin » Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:13 am

I loved it, it's going down as a Classic Dalek story in my eyes, which hasn't happend since 'Dalek' imo. I just hope the soldier thing isn't Moffat trying to placate those fucktards who had only watched RTD's Doctor Who and say shit like 'OMG the Doctor wouldn't lie ever' and 'The Doctor hates guns he'd never uses a gun never ever in a million years' Though, I can show them this video and watch them cry

Interestingly the post-production script had a scene where 'Rusty' suicide bombs the Dalek ship, which has been cut. Obviously somebody likes the idea of him still being out there. I hope it's Big Finish.

Edit: Just found this interpretation of the Soldier thing on another site

The thing is, the Doctor just had a Dalek point out his hatred, to praise his standing as a “good Dalek”, to wage pure destruction with him as the focal point of inspiration. And then a soldier asks him to take her with him. And it must seem like Journey’s following him into battle. He doesn’t have a “rule” against soldiers in spite of the things he has done, in complete disregard of just what he himself is capable of. But because of it. How must she scare him, standing there, so hopeful.

A Dalek saw hatred.

What must a soldier see?

Thoughts?
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Re: S35E2: Into the Dalek [spoilers]

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:34 pm

I loved the episode, but the anti-soldier bullshit grated on me something fierce.
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Re: S35E2: Into the Dalek [spoilers]

Postby Nutso » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:48 pm

Griffin wrote:I loved it, it's going down as a Classic Dalek story in my eyes, which hasn't happend since 'Dalek' imo. I just hope the soldier thing isn't Moffat trying to placate those fucktards who had only watched RTD's Doctor Who and say shit like 'OMG the Doctor wouldn't lie ever' and 'The Doctor hates guns he'd never uses a gun never ever in a million years' Though, I can show them this video and watch them cry

Interestingly the post-production script had a scene where 'Rusty' suicide bombs the Dalek ship, which has been cut. Obviously somebody likes the idea of him still being out there. I hope it's Big Finish.

Edit: Just found this interpretation of the Soldier thing on another site

The thing is, the Doctor just had a Dalek point out his hatred, to praise his standing as a “good Dalek”, to wage pure destruction with him as the focal point of inspiration. And then a soldier asks him to take her with him. And it must seem like Journey’s following him into battle. He doesn’t have a “rule” against soldiers in spite of the things he has done, in complete disregard of just what he himself is capable of. But because of it. How must she scare him, standing there, so hopeful.

A Dalek saw hatred.

What must a soldier see?

Thoughts?

A soldier like Journey Blue who disobeyed orders to follow The Doctor's plan, and also saw the loyalty in his companion Clara, being a schoolteacher who follows The Doctor into a Dalek, Journey Blue sees something more than killing. There's beauty in The Doctor, if you shared an experience with him. She watched him break a Dalek down from Human Killer to Human Savior using words and his own mind. Of course this is not what The Doctor sees in himself.

The Daleks, if they remembered him like they did in Ecclestone's series would see The Doctor as The Oncoming Storm, and be terrified into silence. The Cult of Skaro were taken aback when they learned that Tenant's Doctor was nearby. "Five Million Cybermen, easy. One Doctor, now you're scared."

A regular soldier who knew of The Doctor would see an unorthodox military commander who can beat any enemy but, he is also dangerous as he has defeated the Universe's greatest threats time and time again. That would earn respect. I guess a regular soldier would look at The Doctor as a field general.
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Re: S35E2: Into the Dalek [spoilers]

Postby Coalition » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:44 am

Another option is a soldier will see the Doctor as a pragmatic commander. He will not sacrifice troops out of some sense of honor, but only if it is necessary. So they may die in battle, but they will die at the right place, for the right reasons, and only because he has no other choice.

He will look out for your interests, but the mission comes first, even over his own desires.

That would be attractive to a soldier. He will come up with a good plan, risk himself where necessary, care for the soldiers under his command, but be willing to spend them to end the threat, instead of letting the threat get bigger.
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Re: S35E2: Into the Dalek [spoilers]

Postby Graham Kennedy » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:21 am

They touched on this with Matt Smith a season or two back - the whole reason he erased himself from public memory and made everyone think he was dead, remember? Because "Doctor" had come to mean "Warrior" in a lot of places, and soldiers were looking up to him as some great military figure, and he was appalled by it.

Perhaps the bias against soldiers stemmed from that? Not so much that he doesn't like them, but he just doesn't want to go down that road again.
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