S35E1: Deep Breath [spoilers]

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Re: S35E1: Deep Breath

Post by Captain Seafort »

Given the circumstances, I don't think spoiler tags are necessary. I'll stick one in the title to be on the safe side.
Nutso wrote:Did The Doctor throw him off
He said one of them was lying, and given that it wouldn't be the first time the Doctor's killed someone I don't see how it can even be considered a question. If the answer turns out to be "he jumped" I will be very disappointed with Moffat for failing to remember The Two Doctors.
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Re: S35E1: Deep Breath [spoilers]

Post by Nutso »

Re-watched it, in America. Started at 8:15, ended at 10:00. Eight commercial breaks.

Anyway, I hope The Doctor did throw that anti-cyborg off because that was the stated way to shut down the other machines killing his friends and not some suicide. Too much of a cop out. The anti-cyborg was impaled on a cross looking thing though. I was fearing this was a symbol for a sacrifice.

On re-watch I was trying to pick out symbols but all I got was the obvious looking into the platter thing. In fact that entire broom monologue could be about The Doctor himself.

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Re: S35E1: Deep Breath [spoilers]

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Saw it at the cinema, loved it with a few reservations.

My biggest complaint is that the whole dinosaur thing was a little superfluous. They showed a Q&A with the writer and stars afterwards, and he commented that he had the idea for a giant dinosaur in London first, wrote that scene, and then wrote an episode around it. That showed, IMO - you could have taken the dinosaur out of the episode and it wouldn't have been all that different. Also, I was a bit disappointed at them bringing back the robots who harvest human bits. I always liked the idea of the Madame Du Pompadour as being this one of freaky occurrence, a bunch of robots that went insane in a weirdly specific way that was some million to one chance. To me, that gave it an added poignancy. Now we find that... what, this organ harvesting is just something this particular type of ship/robot thinks is a logical idea? There's nothing inherently impossible about it or anything, but for me it cheapens the idea a little. And why does the Doctor comment about their ship being a sister ship of the Madame Du Pompadour, when in the original episode they never actually find out the name of the ship?

Anyway, minor gripes aside...

Lots of nice lines and scenes, both comic and serious. I love Strax, and his constant mistaking of women for men, hair for hats, etc. "...and boil him in acid!" "Oy!" "Sorry. And... NOT boil him in acid!" was genius, as was his surgical strike newspaper delivery.

Loved the Doctor's sleepy translation of the Dinosaur roars. It was no monster... it was just lonely and scared.

Clara's facing down the robot. Such a wonderful scene; Clara isn't simply defiant, she's so clearly scared shitless, and even admits that she is... but is defiant anyway. True bravery, and a fantastically written and acted scene.

The robot himself. He starts out evil, but by the end you kind of feel sorry for him. Classic Who.

Hard to judge Capaldi as the Doctor, since they engaged in the tradition of "the Doctor is crazy after his regeneration". But what I saw, I liked. And I especially liked the climactic scene in the restaurant. There has been much talk of Capaldi wanting to make the Doctor a bit edgier and scarier. His leaving Clara to the robots was the first big moment of that... though as a "dark and edgy" moment it was undercut by the fact that he came back again. But his comment of "I'm very much afraid that I'm going to have to kill you," felt genuinely edgy to me. Not that the Doctor hasn't killed before, one way or another. But the way he said it, the casual "I might murder you, and I'm okay with that," - yeah, that felt a little darker and nastier.

And did he? Did the robot step out, or was he pushed out? I'm betting they will never tell us.

Liked Matt Smith's cameo, though it felt a little bit contrived to me.

And of course, the big question. Who is the woman? No doubt we will find out, sooner or later.

All in all I'd rate it about 8/10.
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Re: S35E1: Deep Breath [spoilers]

Post by Nutso »

The woman's name is "Missy" but, I'm hoping that isn't short for "The Mistress."
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Re: S35E1: Deep Breath [spoilers]

Post by RK_Striker_JK_5 »

Saw it, liked it a lot. Capaldi did good, there. I think he pushed the Clockwork Man, myself. Not keen on CLara being the one who knows him best, mind.
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Re: S35E1: Deep Breath [spoilers]

Post by Nutso »

Graham Kennedy wrote:Saw it at the cinema, loved it with a few reservations.

My biggest complaint is that the whole dinosaur thing was a little superfluous. They showed a Q&A with the writer and stars afterwards, and he commented that he had the idea for a giant dinosaur in London first, wrote that scene, and then wrote an episode around it. That showed, IMO - you could have taken the dinosaur out of the episode and it wouldn't have been all that different. Also, I was a bit disappointed at them bringing back the robots who harvest human bits. I always liked the idea of the Madame Du Pompadour as being this one of freaky occurrence, a bunch of robots that went insane in a weirdly specific way that was some million to one chance. To me, that gave it an added poignancy. Now we find that... what, this organ harvesting is just something this particular type of ship/robot thinks is a logical idea? There's nothing inherently impossible about it or anything, but for me it cheapens the idea a little. And why does the Doctor comment about their ship being a sister ship of the Madame Du Pompadour, when in the original episode they never actually find out the name of the ship?
See now I thought the dinosaur was a metaphor for The Doctor being out of place. When he was sleep-translating the dinosaur's noises, I thought those were actually The Doctor's thoughts. Maybe I look into things too much and see symbols that aren't there. I'd make a good conspiracy nut. :(
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Re: S35E1: Deep Breath [spoilers]

Post by Nutso »

"Madame du Pompadour" was completely lost on me. I just Googled this and it goes all the way back to David Tennant's first season, The Girl in the Fireplace. So the anti-cyborg is a Clockwork Man.
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Re: S35E1: Deep Breath [spoilers]

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Nutso wrote:See now I thought the dinosaur was a metaphor for The Doctor being out of place. When he was sleep-translating the dinosaur's noises, I thought those were actually The Doctor's thoughts. Maybe I look into things too much and see symbols that aren't there. I'd make a good conspiracy nut. :(
Yeah, I get that. Both are apparently powerful beings, but both revealed to be scared and lonely because they are out of place and time. And thematically it works. But it just doesn't tie into the plot all that well. If the Tardis had arrived and Capaldi walked out and saw some guy bursting into flames instead, it would have served the exact same function as a springboard into "what's going on?" There was no particular reason it had to be a dinosaur, and certainly no reason it had to be a 200 foot dinosaur.
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Re: S35E1: Deep Breath [spoilers]

Post by Jim »

Yeah, a dinosaur for no reason that does not play any plot purposes other than helping establish that the clockwork people have been around for a looooong time (knowing that the Rex's eye would help) is one thing. It being 200 feet tall is just... odd.
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Re: S35E1: Deep Breath [spoilers]

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Especially as the explanation of that was "Most dinosaurs were that big and we just missed it."
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Re: S35E1: Deep Breath [spoilers]

Post by Jim »

Nutso wrote:Anyway, I hope The Doctor did throw that anti-cyborg off because that was the stated way to shut down the other machines killing his friends and not some suicide.
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I hope that he threw him just so that this Doctor has some balls. "Go sit in the corner and think about what you did" does not solve everything.

Also... there are the names for the Doctor that have yet to come... "The Oncoming Storm", "The Destroyer of Worlds", "The Beast" etc. There should be a reason for that....
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Re: S35E1: Deep Breath [spoilers]

Post by Griffin »

How big were the Dino's in Invasion of the Dinosaurs. Internal homage, perhaps?
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Re: S35E1: Deep Breath [spoilers]

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Griffin wrote:How big were the Dino's in Invasion of the Dinosaurs. Internal homage, perhaps?
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Re: S35E1: Deep Breath [spoilers]

Post by Griffin »

I thought they were bigger then that. My mistake, then.
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Re: S35E1: Deep Breath [spoilers]

Post by Captain Seafort »

I thought they were more realistic than that, albeit not by much.
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