SFDebris: From Ten to Eleven

[Captain Seafort]

End of Time Part 1

Not Chuck's title, but it fits, given that he's going to be covering Part 2 and The Eleventh Hour over the next couple of days.

[Captain Seafort]

Part 2

In which the Doctor and the Master are worse than Tom and Harry, and Chuck misses the opportunity to crack a Pierce Brosnan joke.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

My friend Kathy and I used the Doc and Donna as an example in the paper we presented in a science fiction symposium. And it's eerily how SF Debris presented it. Well, mostly.

I've... I've never liked End of Time.

[Captain Seafort]

I think Chuck summed up the problem well - it's got moments of brilliance, but it's let down by all the shit in between.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

An excellent summation yourself, Seafort.

[Captain Seafort]

The Eleventh Hour

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Much, much better for me.

[colmquinn]

I don't remember the episode totally but let me guess is it let down terribly by Donna? (Shudder I fuc*ing hate Katherine Tate)

[Mikey]

is it let down terribly by Donna?

The ep? Probably... the show in general? Definitely.

[Captain Seafort]

The ep? Probably...

Donna barely appeared in the episode, and certainly had no effect whatsoever on its progress.

the show in general? Definitely.

If by "let down" you mean "significantly improved" then I agree. She was certainly aggravating in The Runaway Bride, and the mess in Journey's End was just that, but Donna as a character throughout series 30 as a whole was a definite improvement on Rose and Martha.

[Mikey]

A pile of cold sick would have been an improvement on Rose. The idea of Donna Noble being an improvement on Martha, however, is laughable. I have no problem with Tate - indeed, as I understand from David Tennant she's been a dream with whom for him to do Shakespeare - but the character was the anthropomorfication of nails on a chalkboard.

[Captain Seafort]

A pile of cold sick would have been an improvement on Rose.

I wouldn't go that far - she's certainly no Adric or Mel.

The idea of Donna Noble being an improvement on Martha, however, is laughable.

Why? Martha was nothing but Rose Mk2, with extra whine.

[Mikey]

I wouldn't go that far - she's certainly no Adric or Mel.

No, but the character of Rose should have aspired to be as tolerable as either of them.

Why? Martha was nothing but Rose Mk2, with extra whine.

Extra whine? There isn't enough cheese in France to go with all the whine Rose had. Let me amend that: my problem with Rose wasn't necessarily whininess. Rather, it was her idiocy. Specifically, it was her willful idiocy, even after having been shown her stupidity. When Rose fucked something up, it seemed quite often to be in a like manner to the way she had done in the past and had been shown why said action was wrong... yet she repeated her idiocy, more often than not for a completely personal, selfish reason. Plus, I don't like the way she treated Mickey.

And, after all that, she ended up being omnipotent Rose, Queen of the Universal Reset Button, through a deus ex machina completely without even a pretense of reason in storytelling (I don't consider a litany of lupine references to be "reason in storytelling.")

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I liked Donna because of who and what she was. She stood up to the Doc when necessary and wasn't intimidated by his 'Oncoming Storm' bullshit. She wasn't in love with him, didn't fawn over or anything like that. He deserves a smack? *SMACK!* I LOATHED what happened to her in End of Time.

[Mikey]

Also, while I may be far in the minority, I consider Freema Agyeman to be a lot easier on the eyes than Billie Piper.