General Discussion

Re: General Discussion

Postby Reliant121 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:23 pm

Different classes for different trade values would work well I think. Maybe classifications like:

Regional (Class 1): 500,000 trade units - 50,000kt single transit
Outer Core (class 2): 2,000,000 trade units - 250,000 kt single transit
Heartland (class 3): 5,000,000 trade units - 500,000 kt single transit

Since this will be classified based on year trade unit values, it would have a limited volume of ships at a single transit time. Strategically, I'd say you can go through it at any time (although you'd be detected). Which makes the gates paramount for seizure during war situations, to allow supply and reinforcements to transit through. That's just what I'd do.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby BigJKU316 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:07 pm

Mark wrote:Well, I think that this sort of tech would be one of those rare universal things, (like the Beta SIM station), that we'd all be working on, so if we're all pursuing it and investing in it, we're not gonna drop it.

The advantages I see primarily are for trade. The AM cost is gonna drop to just getting goods to a jumpgate. It'll also create commercial districts, as systems with jump gates will be getting a greater influx of trade.

I'd say it works something like this.

Each investing power will recieve one jump gate at the end of the R&D period, in a system they choose. Jump gates will come in different classes, which will restrict the amount on trade going in and out each year. You can build more than one, or upgrade your existing one, but that would be at your own expense.

You wouldn't be able to sneak through a gate, so its military applications would be limited, and you could always deactivate yours, but it would take some time to reactivate.

What do you guys think?


Rather than gates I prefer something along these lines....

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Graviton_catapult

The main/only benefit I can see from it is that it would basically eliminate anti-matter consumption by trade fleets. However that presents a couple of problems for players and game administration.

1. Anti-matter production is balanced based on trade taking up anti-matter. If the stuff becomes as common as water then we might as well do without the resource system period. Most of you are using half or more of your AM on trade.

2. I would think these sort of things would be highly expensive and introduce some vulnerabilities for player races. As soon as one exist it would put regular trade ships out of work. That means if your one or handful of these things gets blown up, no more trade until you can build a new one.

3. I can't see any navy, well at least one with a brain, basing their resupply and movements on these things. It would be far to limiting.

I like the concept, but I am not sure it is very "trek" for lack of a better term and am not sure how well it would integrate into the present game structure.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Mark » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:19 pm

Well, Trek does have wormholes and quantum fissures and the like. Not to mention we'd open up a whole new realm....."subspace"!!! Invading races, piracy, and so forth once the ships are in subspace. It a risk...less AM consumption, more danger to ships traversing it.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Deepcrush » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:20 pm

Honestly I would prefer a hypergate (Lost in Space film) system over that. The Graviton Catapult is to easily disrupted and as you said would remove brains from any conflict. A hypergate network requires two for the system to work. They're massive, expensive, easily destroyed, useless for attackers who'd have to travel the old fashion way. In order for them to work, both gates have to agree to the transit. Trade and Fleet movement would be far cheaper... once the things are built. But if lost, costs would revert to normal in which makes them great targets for raids, pirates or sabotage.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby BigJKU316 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:52 pm

Deepcrush wrote:Honestly I would prefer a hypergate (Lost in Space film) system over that. The Graviton Catapult is to easily disrupted and as you said would remove brains from any conflict. A hypergate network requires two for the system to work. They're massive, expensive, easily destroyed, useless for attackers who'd have to travel the old fashion way. In order for them to work, both gates have to agree to the transit. Trade and Fleet movement would be far cheaper... once the things are built. But if lost, costs would revert to normal in which makes them great targets for raids, pirates or sabotage.


I get where you are going but practically I think the side effect would be this.

Non-warp capable long-range trade ships would quickly put the warp-capable ones out of business using these gates. If they were destroyed you would have to suffer for a long time to build that back up. Trade (and troop transports) right now are dictated on everyone having thriving civilian yards that produce the necessary ships basically on demand. This would impact that as expertise in warp engines would be lost I would think.

That aside the game concern is that I just have no time to play with this in the spreadsheets right now. I think I know where I could add this information in (ie which systems have this and which don't) but I don't have time to think through all the implications at this time. I have vacation coming up this summer and might look at it then.

Honestly I would rather just do a new game with a gate-based travel system (Wing Commander anyone?) than bring gates into Trek though.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Deepcrush » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:36 pm

I don't recall Wing Commander using Jump Gates.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby BigJKU316 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:42 pm

Deepcrush wrote:I don't recall Wing Commander using Jump Gates.


They use Jump Points. Basically you fight to control points from which you can jump to other fixed points. Point A can take you to B and C but not D. And C can take you to F and Q but not to Y and so on. The in universe explaintation is basically that the jump drives utilize other space phenomenon to achieve FTL travel and as such those places in space become highly important.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Deepcrush » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:35 pm

So why exactly would warp capable ships go out of business? Not everyone is going to have access to the Gate network.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Tholian_Avenger » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:19 am

Why not try the Soliton Wave method?
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Lt. Staplic » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:23 am

There are several things we could try, but the point is the Solition Wave is just as viable as the gravity beam catapult idea, and it just comes down to not wanting/having time for the necessary modifications to the sheets and rules.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Deepcrush » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:53 am

So then we're just sticking with Warp then?
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Reliant121 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:56 am

Personally, I think it's probably easier for the moment. Think about it, this spreadsheet system is the first time the games running and it's down an extraordinarily good job of running the game (although no winner as yet has found itself declared). Next time, if the GM is willing, theres unimaginable scope for experimentation. New FTL systems, Gate based travel for the whole empire (like you got in Freelancer or EVE); different settings like Just before world war I, the cold War era.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Tsukiyumi » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:44 pm

Reliant121 wrote:(although no winner as yet has found itself declared)


I won two turns ago. Y'all just don't know it yet. :wink:
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Sonic Glitch » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:04 pm

Tsukiyumi wrote:
Reliant121 wrote:(although no winner as yet has found itself declared)


I won two turns ago. Y'all just don't know it yet. :wink:

I think the Dominion won quite a bit ago... "You're too late, we're everywhere..."
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Mark » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:07 pm

Not to criticize, because I know how much work you guys put into this (hence the awards nominations), but I do feel that we are restricted alot in our R&D. Basically, we can't have a real propulsion advance because we are all using warp, we can only kick up our top speeds, which doens't really give us much advantage. We can't really research new weapons, as there is no way to calculate them (I'd love to develop a hyper-iso phaser after all), which again, prevents a real significant step forward. Same with shields, stealth tech, and alot of other areas.

I sort of suspect if someone only focused on ships, weapons, and speed, that most R&D advantages would be useless anyway.
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