Fix the Craft World Eldar

Re: Fix the Craft World Eldar

Postby Mikey » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:54 pm

Yeah, but the new codex is still an awful fanboi gamebreaker. One word: dreadknights.
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Re: Fix the Craft World Eldar

Postby sunnyside » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:10 pm

Mikey wrote:Right, but what we're discussing is how we'd fix the Eldar - my suggestion here is to use the Exodites as occupation forces since the craftworlds don't have the manpower to occupy. They'd be more than good enough for that.


But my point was that I don't think the exodites have the number to occupy either. They aren't even really tapping the resources of the planets they're on to a significant degree due to deliberatly small populations and a desire to live in something closer to harmony with nature. Nothing really to be gained through expansion.

Hence why I think the first and formost fix they need is something to get their birthrates up. "Path of the parent" or something for the craftworlds, and maybe something similar for the exodites (they probably won't be able to persuade the corsairs or rangers, but you might be able to get some to come back for a while. Maybe letting them have a kid in the comfort of a craftworld and then they can go back to traipsing about the galaxy.)

Expansion would be faaaaar off in their planning.

On that note, in a short term sense, they perhaps ought to have some farseer conferences or something to coordinate their plans wthin plans within plans. Though the problem there might be that craftworlds would wisely not want to risk their best farseers to the dangers of warp travel.


second, the Eldar's mortality rate is really slow.


Well, natural mortality maybe.

Huh. Just get Matt Ward to write a codex for you. After all, look at the changes after he finished "Codex: Super god-mod Mary-Sue game-breakers."*

* - Sorry, I mean the 5th Ed. Codex: Grey Knights.


Heh.

Though I don't know if that would help. Space marines are supposed to win a lot, and be easy on the newbs. Eldar aren't.

There were some pretty clear comments coming from staff while the codex was getting brewed up that it was going to be a nerf, or at least our best stuff was going to get nerfed hard, which amounted to the same thing since none of the new stuff they gave us came close to replacing what was lost. Eldar were actually becoming quite popular at tournaments, and they intended to put a stop to it.

We still make the occasional showing when great general take lists that the metagame isn't geared up for (I doubt anybody makes their armies worry about what will happen if they have to face Eldar, so we can sneak in).
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Re: Fix the Craft World Eldar

Postby Mikey » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:01 pm

Makes one wonder why GW has a hard-on for Eldar. 'Course, one often has to wonder why GW does anything they do.
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Re: Fix the Craft World Eldar

Postby sunnyside » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:08 pm

Mikey wrote:Makes one wonder why GW has a hard-on for Eldar. 'Course, one often has to wonder why GW does anything they do.


I think they just have a semi-official position on how things are "supposed" to be. For quite a while it was that Marines and Chaos were supposed to be the most common tourney armies, with the others sneaking in through chinks in the metagame. Though they seem to have made a decision to take IG, typically whipping boys, and put them up near the top in their last dex.

There was a lot of talk about power bloat. But Eldar were nerfed, I don't know dark Eldar so well, but they aren't exactly taking over the tourney scene, and Necrons were nerfed about as much as they were buffed, I don't expect to see them dominating either.

I'm not sure why that is. It could have a profit motive though. Retailers are notorious for pushing new players toward marines. This doesn't tend to be hard as the marines are easy for your typical guy to like. It doesn't work out so well to crush the newbs or to have them slapped with the reality that the army they just sunk a bunch of cash into has no chance at higher levels of competition. No, a retailer can steer someone to the smurfs knowing that Grandma Wendy's going to be looking out for them.

And marines have the highest frequency of books you have to buy often getting a double tap on your wallet with a new SM codex and then the codex for your chapter.
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Re: Fix the Craft World Eldar

Postby Mikey » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:34 am

I suppose. It makes one wonder, though, why they abandoned or ignored such cash cows. If they came out with an AdMech codex - including Titan Legions, Knights, and skitarii... they'd make a mint on the book and another on the models. The Forge World would come out with two new models, charge $80 for each, and then shill a new IA book for another $50. Squats, too... if they gave them an army list in the IG dex, and molded some plastic (I know Squats were deep-sixed because of the lead and resin mold costs,) they'd have to buy more pockets.
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Re: Fix the Craft World Eldar

Postby sunnyside » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:11 am

Mikey wrote:I suppose. It makes one wonder, though, why they abandoned or ignored such cash cows. If they came out with an AdMech codex - including Titan Legions, Knights, and skitarii... they'd make a mint on the book and another on the models. The Forge World would come out with two new models, charge $80 for each, and then shill a new IA book for another $50. Squats, too... if they gave them an army list in the IG dex, and molded some plastic (I know Squats were deep-sixed because of the lead and resin mold costs,) they'd have to buy more pockets.


I've got no idea there. Maybe they're saving those moves for a rainy day?

Though I get the impression that they maybe have resisted the deadly urge some game companies fell to where you try and make as much money as you can in as short a time as you can and hire a bunch of people...and then exhaust your player base and go down in flames or at least a round of layoffs. GW seems to have a sort of release rhythm going on.
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Re: Fix the Craft World Eldar

Postby Coalition » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:17 am

Mikey wrote:I suppose. It makes one wonder, though, why they abandoned or ignored such cash cows. If they came out with an AdMech codex - including Titan Legions, Knights, and skitarii... they'd make a mint on the book and another on the models. The Forge World would come out with two new models, charge $80 for each, and then shill a new IA book for another $50. Squats, too... if they gave them an army list in the IG dex, and molded some plastic (I know Squats were deep-sixed because of the lead and resin mold costs,) they'd have to buy more pockets.


As long as the units pay the point cost and have the appropriate stats, you can go with ay army that would have the appropriate flavor. I.e. you aren't fielding a Chimera, you are fielding a servitor controlled armored troop platform. You aren't fielding Imperial Guard Conscript platoon, you're fielding armed Servo skulls.

You aren't fielding a regular Tau army, you're fielding a single tau Fire warrior controlling a drone force, while the Tau Fire warrior sits on the hover computer platform playing DoW: IRL.

For the Eldar, just model the Guardians as drones, and the only Eldar are the Aspect Warriors and Farseers.

You just model them appropriately, and it is technically a legal army.
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Re: Fix the Craft World Eldar

Postby Deepcrush » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:28 am

The table top issue for Eldar is that they are a Specialist force. You can't build an Eldar army that is balanced and effective at the same time. When writing a list, you need to leave wargear options and Elite options open to switch around. IE, no vehicle armies against Necrons or Farsight Tau.
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Re: Fix the Craft World Eldar

Postby sunnyside » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:45 pm

Deepcrush wrote:The table top issue for Eldar is that they are a Specialist force. You can't build an Eldar army that is balanced and effective at the same time. When writing a list, you need to leave wargear options and Elite options open to switch around. IE, no vehicle armies against Necrons or Farsight Tau.


Wait, am I reading that right? I'm used to it being very frowned on to tweak your list once you know what army you're going to be fighting, unless it was planned ahead that way and you're both tooling up to beat the other.

Tournies and things usually make you have a single list that cannot be change in any way, then you have to player whatever comes with it.
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Re: Fix the Craft World Eldar

Postby Mikey » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:10 pm

Coalition wrote:
Mikey wrote:I suppose. It makes one wonder, though, why they abandoned or ignored such cash cows. If they came out with an AdMech codex - including Titan Legions, Knights, and skitarii... they'd make a mint on the book and another on the models. The Forge World would come out with two new models, charge $80 for each, and then shill a new IA book for another $50. Squats, too... if they gave them an army list in the IG dex, and molded some plastic (I know Squats were deep-sixed because of the lead and resin mold costs,) they'd have to buy more pockets.


As long as the units pay the point cost and have the appropriate stats, you can go with ay army that would have the appropriate flavor. I.e. you aren't fielding a Chimera, you are fielding a servitor controlled armored troop platform. You aren't fielding Imperial Guard Conscript platoon, you're fielding armed Servo skulls.

You aren't fielding a regular Tau army, you're fielding a single tau Fire warrior controlling a drone force, while the Tau Fire warrior sits on the hover computer platform playing DoW: IRL.

For the Eldar, just model the Guardians as drones, and the only Eldar are the Aspect Warriors and Farseers.

You just model them appropriately, and it is technically a legal army.


I'm not saying that you can't "counts-as" almost anything in or out of 40k fluff. I'm sure that one can (and somebody probably already has) a "counts-as" army of tin Boer War soldiers as Necrons, or something as ridiculous. What I'm saying is that even though you can easily make a skitarii army using the IG 'dex and the right doctrines, or the Witch Hunters, or whatever - plenty of people would still pay for a Tech-Guard 'dex, or Adeptus Arbites 'dex (even though that's supremely easy to make out of a Witch Hunters army,) or whatever. Then, people would still pay for arbitor minis, and Forge World could make an Arbites-specific Repressor (even though it's just an SoB Rhino without the fleur-de-lys) and people would still buy it.
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Re: Fix the Craft World Eldar

Postby Deepcrush » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:43 pm

sunnyside wrote:Wait, am I reading that right? I'm used to it being very frowned on to tweak your list once you know what army you're going to be fighting, unless it was planned ahead that way and you're both tooling up to beat the other.

Tournies and things usually make you have a single list that cannot be change in any way, then you have to player whatever comes with it.


During the Tournies, you can often get bonuses as you go. However, in those times that you can, you're often better off just fielding an Anti-Marine list since that's who you'll likely be facing in the end round.
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