Fix the Imperium of Man

Fix the Imperium of Man

Postby Deepcrush » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:00 am

Since we've been hitting on this so much in the other thread, lets just open the flood gates.
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Re: Fix the Imperium of Man

Postby Mikey » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:18 pm

Well, you hit the nail on the head. Lord Solar or Warmaster needs to be a fixed position... an office to oversee the Munitorum, the IG, the IN, the Astartes, and the AdMech all together. Part and parcel with that, the Adeptus Terra needs to be revamped. It's so counter to common sense that, for example, the Adeptus Arbites works at odds with the Inquisition, rather than alongside it. Why, for another example, is there an Ordo Sicarius within the Inquisition yet a completely separate Officium Assassinorum?
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Re: Fix the Imperium of Man

Postby Deepcrush » Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:43 pm

Mikey wrote:Lord Solar or Warmaster needs to be a fixed position... an office to oversee the Munitorum, the IG, the IN, the Astartes, and the AdMech all together.


For Lord Solar, you need someone who watches over and protects Sol and that's it. That's their job and end of it. IMO, that should fall on the Adeptus Custodes. The Warmaster should be, as you pointed out, the Supreme Command of IoM forces while still answering to the High Lords. That way he can focus on war, they focus on the other tasks that come with running a Million System Imperium.

Mikey wrote:It's so counter to common sense that, for example, the Adeptus Arbites works at odds with the Inquisition, rather than alongside it.


Personally, I think the Inquisition needs to be a support arm for the Adeptus Arbites rather then treating it the other way around. Arbites find a situation that could be more then they can handle, they call in the Inquisition to help them out.

Get rid of the Inquisition's love of DBZ and make them responsible for helping keep down uprisings or dealing with smaller rebellions. You can free up the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy for protecting the IoM borders. Short of an entire world just up and turning on the IoM, there's no reason a company of Grey Knights supported by Order of Adeptus Sororitas plus several legions of Stormtroopers couldn't turn a rebellion to its heel.
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Re: Fix the Imperium of Man

Postby Mikey » Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:49 pm

:? I had always read that the honorific "Solar" as in "Lord Admiral Solar..." was a statement of position rather than geographic location. Be that as it may, yes - the Adeptus Custodes should have command of the Sol system.
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Re: Fix the Imperium of Man

Postby Deepcrush » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:40 am

Lord Admiral Solar is the head of Segmentum Solar, or so I thought.
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Re: Fix the Imperium of Man

Postby Mikey » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:14 pm

Well, whatever you call him there needs to be upper-level command that oversees the Guard, Navy, Astartes, and Munitorum all together.
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Re: Fix the Imperium of Man

Postby Tyyr » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:25 pm

Grab the Adeptus Mechanicus by their collars and shake them until the stupid falls out.
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Re: Fix the Imperium of Man

Postby Deepcrush » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:09 pm

Tyyr wrote:Grab the Adeptus Mechanicus by their collars and shake them until the stupid falls out.


They should be merged with the Munitorum. That way the IG and IN would have ready access to the SotA equipment they should be using if the AMs excuses weren't always in the way.
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Re: Fix the Imperium of Man

Postby Tyyr » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:52 pm

The big thing is that you need them to stop standing in the way of progress. I know in WH40K it can be dangerous but still, some advancement is better than none. Especially since tech has been in decline for what, 15,000 years now? However you need to get them under control, and putting them under the munitorium's control seems like a good idea, do it.
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Re: Fix the Imperium of Man

Postby Mikey » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:56 pm

Agreed. The AdMech should be treated as any other of the Adeptus Terra. Letting them have the Cult Mechanicus is fine - hell, it's eminently possible that the Dragon of Mars was put there on purpose by the GEoM in order to found the AdMech in the first place - but it needs to be used as a tool to rein them, not an excuse to let them do what they want and have the IoM asking for their assistance rather than telling them what to do.
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Re: Fix the Imperium of Man

Postby Deepcrush » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:30 pm

"Standing in the way of progress" is a very tricky issue in 40k. There's a major problem of how far can you go before you leave yourself in your own trap. AI, over powered local leaders, psykers, warp corruption, chaos powers, alien influence and pure human greed all turn into problem. There is also the problem of trying to put the AM under the control of an inferior department such as the Munitorium. The AM, even with its flaws, is still far more able to manage its resources then the Munitorium is.
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Re: Fix the Imperium of Man

Postby Mikey » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:46 pm

No doubt, and I don't think the AdMech should be inferior to another Adeptus. They should, however, be reined in by the High Lords - an exploration journey by an Ark Mechanicus, for example, should be seen as a mission of the IoM, not of the AdMech specifically. And they need to be made to progress.
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Re: Fix the Imperium of Man

Postby Deepcrush » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:06 am

Mikey wrote:No doubt, and I don't think the AdMech should be inferior to another Adeptus. They should, however, be reined in by the High Lords


I think the next step would be for that kind of control is to figure out who should be on the Council of High Lords (can't call them the High Lords of Terra since they won't have say over Sol anymore) and how many should there be?

I figure the 12 standard plus the Adeptus Custodes as the tie breakers/voice of the Emperor's will. Gives enough votes on the Central level to keep things fluid without having so many that the system bogs down.

1st - Warmaster, supreme commander of Imperial forces.
2nd - Adeptus Administratum, those who provide civil services to met and control the needs of the average civilians.
3rd - High Lord Commander of the Imperial Army, the one who helps the Warmaster coordinate ground forces.
4th - High Lord Commander of the Imperial Navy, the one who helps the Warmaster coordinate navel forces.
5th - High Lord Advisor of the Adeptus Astartes, representative for the SMs and their missions.
6th - Fabricator General of the Adeptus Mechanicus, the one who's in charge of advancing the IoM's tech base and means of its production.
7th - Grand Inquisitor of the Adeptus Arbites, I added the term Inquisitor since IMO the Arbites and Inq should be the same dept.
8th - Provider General of the Departmento Munitorum, responsible for managing the resources and materials of the IoM.
9th - Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, responsible for pyskers within the IoM.
10th - Ecclesiarch of the Adeptus Ministorum, manages the faith and mental care of the IoM
11th - High Lord Governor, the voice of Imperial worlds in the Council.
12th - High Lord Merchant, manages trade+lanes, commerce, travel between systems and Xenos.

The armed forces (1,3,4,5,7) have five votes, the civilian based groups (2,9,10,11,12) have five votes, and in the middle is the "producers" of the the IoM ( with the remaining two votes (6,8).

This means that on average the Civilians and Military of the IoM are on equal footing and can't just steamroll each other. Both require the support of each other or the support of the Custodes and producer groups.
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Re: Fix the Imperium of Man

Postby Mikey » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:23 pm

I like that idea, though I'm not sure how well having the Ministorum represented would work. However, there's adequate check on them if they get unruly.

Personally, I'd like to see a shift toward bringing the IA, the IN, and the DM together under one "armed services" aegis.

Does the Navis Nobilite get represented at all?
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Re: Fix the Imperium of Man

Postby Deepcrush » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:16 pm

Mikey wrote:I like that idea, though I'm not sure how well having the Ministorum represented would work. However, there's adequate check on them if they get unruly.


Its purely to give a voice, though be it a small one, to the people who base their actions on faith. Removing religion from the IoM's government would cause far more issues then it would solve.

Mikey wrote:Personally, I'd like to see a shift toward bringing the IA, the IN, and the DM together under one "armed services" aegis.


Its the place of the Warmaster to handle joint services. Also, the DM isn't just responsible for munitions but supplying new colonies, relocation of population and planetary construction. So having them and the AM as the middle ground between the armed forces and civilian led groups made sense to me.

Mikey wrote:Does the Navis Nobilite get represented at all?


They would fall under the "9th - Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, responsible for pyskers within the IoM." Though, with their sheer amount of money they have they should also be able to levy support from the High Lord Merchant.
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