[40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Deepcrush » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:18 pm

True, but its rare to see a bike squad of that size. Normally the operate in pairs and trios. Most chapters look down on Bikes.

Guess that helps with making your chapter more unique is the small changes.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:35 am

I might do away with the flamer troopers in the bike squads altogether, which would leave the bike squads as 3x bikers, 1x sgt., and 1x attack bike.

... and updated - also updated the dev squads to swap some missile launchers for plasma cannons.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:05 pm

OK, company disposition. The Revenants keep the traditional 9 companies (as mentioned, scouts aren't formed into their own company,) but the layout of each company is different from the Codex. There are no "battle" companies or "reserve" companies. Each company is expected to be able to take the field on its own; and like their parent chapter, the Revenants have a very fluid command structure. Units less than a full company are often selected for particular missions, and when circumstances demand it a team comprising elements of different squads will be formed. To avoid any friction, such units will often be commanded by a chaplain,librarian or company officer rather than one of the sergeants involved.

Terminators are found only in the first three companies, as it would be outlandish for a young chapter to have more than 50 termies or so. Sergeants and captains will generally have Mk VIII armor, as the chapter is young, to take advantage of the upgraded comm equipment.

Companies 1-3
1x terminator squad
1x terminator assault squad
2x assault squad
2x devastator squad
1x tactical squad
2x bike squad
1x land Speeder squad

Companies 4-9
3x assault squad
2x devastator squad
2x tactical squad
2x bike squad
1x Land Speeder squad

Armor is very limited in the chapter. Available armor is limted to: Land Raider Crusaders (6: 1 per termie/termie assault squad) and Rhinos for each devastator and tactical squad. Because of the lack of anti-armor firepower in the transports, The armory also includes 13 Predator Annihilators - approx. 1 per two or three APC's if used as an escort. Finally, four Whirlwinds are also included if artillery-type or long-range support is considered necessary. A number of Thunderfire cannons are maintained, because of their ability to be deployed by drop pod.

For orbital vehicles/insertion, the Revenants make heavy use of drop pods, including Deathstorm drop pods. Thunderhawks and Space Marine Landing Craft are also used as normal, and the techmarines of the chapter are anxious to get their hands on the schematics for the Blood Angels' new Stormraven.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Deepcrush » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:29 pm

Looks good, do you have a specific mission type that they go for? Or do they just go for anything.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:31 pm

Updated some of the squad complements/equipment. While this is purely for fiction rather than TT, I tried to update the squads to keep them in line with C:SM 5th Ed. Small changes, mostly; added bolt pistols to most units, added combat shields to some of the assault sgts., dropped the bike squad size.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Deepcrush » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:19 pm

Bummer, I liked the large bike units. Made a lot of sense for a group like this to be bike heavy IMO.

Still, have you come up with a general mission ideal for them?
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:33 pm

Deepcrush wrote:Bummer, I liked the large bike units. Made a lot of sense for a group like this to be bike heavy IMO.


So did I, but I didn't want to get too mary-sue with it. Remember, there are two bike squads in each company, aside from the assault squads. Plus, there will be scout bikes attached to each bike squad and half the assault squads - still working up the attached scouts.

Deepcrush wrote:Still, have you come up with a general mission ideal for them?


Well, they're Astartes - they'll go and kill whatever they're pointed at as long as it's an enemy of the IoM (or if they get too nosy about Corax' work.). :lol: Obviously, they're not suited for a plodding frontal assault or an extended siege; but with the fluidity of their command structure, it's not a question of whether or not a target is the preferred type as much of a question of how they go about it. They're best suited for Deep Strike attacks, flanking maneuvers, etc. Where the 'Fists or Smurfs would attack and overwhelm the main gate of an enemy stronghold, for example, the Revenants would send fast attack units around back, blow a hole in the back door, and plant a homer. Instant termies = bad day for the bad guys. Or, where a more traditional chapter would land a full company or two with landing craft and go overland with armor and APC's, these guys would use some Deathstrom drop pods while inserting some teams by Thunderhawk away from the main fracas to encircle enemy positions.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:38 pm

BTW, also gonna do 5th-ed. style command squads - there's a good chance that they'll be on bikes, too. You probably wwon't see any sternguard/vanguard squads or honor guards, though, as the chapter is just too new to have enough folks qualify as "veteran" by Astartes standards.

Considering that, do you think I should have any dreadnoughts at all?
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Deepcrush » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:06 pm

Mikey wrote:So did I, but I didn't want to get too mary-sue with it. Remember, there are two bike squads in each company, aside from the assault squads. Plus, there will be scout bikes attached to each bike squad and half the assault squads - still working up the attached scouts.


Okay then.

Well, they're Astartes - they'll go and kill whatever they're pointed at as long as it's an enemy of the IoM (or if they get too nosy about Corax' work.)....


True enough in the end. But a lot of the roaming chapters pick their fights by their specialty. That's why I was asking.

... Obviously, they're not suited for a plodding frontal assault or an extended siege; but with the fluidity of their command structure, it's not a question of whether or not a target is the preferred type as much of a question of how they go about it. They're best suited for Deep Strike attacks, flanking maneuvers, etc. Where the 'Fists or Smurfs would attack and overwhelm the main gate of an enemy stronghold, ...


That on top of their limited numbers would make up front combat a bad thing. Though I take it you don't like the Ultramarines much? :lol:

... for example, the Revenants would send fast attack units around back, blow a hole in the back door, and plant a homer. Instant termies = bad day for the bad guys. Or, where a more traditional chapter would land a full company or two with landing craft and go overland with armor and APC's, these guys would use some Deathstrom drop pods while inserting some teams by Thunderhawk away from the main fracas to encircle enemy positions.


I could see fending off a few bikes just to turn around and have termies behind me as a good from to ruin my morning. Seems your chapter is the very counter point to my own. :lol:

Mikey wrote:BTW, also gonna do 5th-ed. style command squads - there's a good chance that they'll be on bikes, too. You probably wwon't see any sternguard/vanguard squads or honor guards, though, as the chapter is just too new to have enough folks qualify as "veteran" by Astartes standards.


Not just that you're new and lacking veterans, but also that those types of units are more common in frontal assault chapters.

Mikey wrote:Considering that, do you think I should have any dreadnoughts at all?


I wouldn't find it out of place for the parent chapter to lend down a few just for the support and experience that Dreadnoughts bring in. While in TT dreads are always present. In fluff, they're more like advisors to the chapter masters then front line combatants.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:24 pm

Deepcrush wrote:Though I take it you don't like the Ultramarines much?


I don't really have a problem with them as much as some folks, it's just that I find them... well, boring. In fic, at least, the Dark Angels have their buried secret; the Blood Angels and descendants have their barbarian attacks and mental problems; etc., etc. The Ultras have... the Codex. Tactical question? Follow the Codex. Organizational issue? Follow the Codex. In fact, the ostracized and sent away on a potentially-deadly quest one of their captains for making a tactical decision in the field that went against the Codex.

Deepcrush wrote:I could see fending off a few bikes just to turn around and have termies behind me as a good from to ruin my morning.


Yeah, most of their tactics will tend to be toward the goal of having their enemies run straight into a trap or enfillade.

Deepcrush wrote:I wouldn't find it out of place for the parent chapter to lend down a few just for the support and experience that Dreadnoughts bring in. While in TT dreads are always present. In fluff, they're more like advisors to the chapter masters then front line combatants.


Yeah, the voice of experience and all that. I also thought having a couple would help counter the lack of armor somewhat.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Deepcrush » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:48 pm

Mikey wrote:I don't really have a problem with them as much as some folks, it's just that I find them... well, boring. In fic, at least, the Dark Angels have their buried secret; the Blood Angels and descendants have their barbarian attacks and mental problems; etc., etc. The Ultras have... the Codex. Tactical question? Follow the Codex. Organizational issue? Follow the Codex. In fact, the ostracized and sent away on a potentially-deadly quest one of their captains for making a tactical decision in the field that went against the Codex.


What I find funny is that they openly preach the Codex Astartes yet when it comes to the most important rule, being the numbers a chapter is allowed to have, they break that one freely.

Mikey wrote:Yeah, most of their tactics will tend to be toward the goal of having their enemies run straight into a trap or enfillade.


Makes sense, Sun Tzu would be proud.

Mikey wrote:Yeah, the voice of experience and all that. I also thought having a couple would help counter the lack of armor somewhat.


Pretty much, it would also make sense that your chapter would be much more open to having larger numbers of Dreads in the future. You can't afford the same losses so keeping up your numbers and ability by Dreads would be a valid tactic. Its the exact reason I don't have dreads in my chapter. No need for them, I have plenty of armor and plenty of replacements. You're the reverse so the reverse would stand to be true.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:26 pm

Deepcrush wrote:What I find funny is that they openly preach the Codex Astartes yet when it comes to the most important rule, being the numbers a chapter is allowed to have, they break that one freely.


Which was supposedly Guilliman's most important reason for writing the Codex. :roll:

Deepcrush wrote:Pretty much, it would also make sense that your chapter would be much more open to having larger numbers of Dreads in the future. You can't afford the same losses so keeping up your numbers and ability by Dreads would be a valid tactic. Its the exact reason I don't have dreads in my chapter. No need for them, I have plenty of armor and plenty of replacements. You're the reverse so the reverse would stand to be true.


Yeah, with the slow replenishment these guys have, anyone even remotely north of room temperature would get the dread treatment. When I do a write up of their philosophy, it will show that they rever dreadnought service anyway - sort of the opposite of the Grey Knights. Their philosophy and cult will kind of be like a mix of the Raven Guard and the Doom Eagles.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Deepcrush » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:51 pm

Mikey wrote:Which was supposedly Guilliman's most important reason for writing the Codex.


Yeah, well rules only count when its NOT part of Guilliman's plan. Then again there are a couple of chapters out there that just ignore the Codex Astartes anyways.

Mikey wrote:Yeah, with the slow replenishment these guys have, anyone even remotely north of room temperature would get the dread treatment. When I do a write up of their philosophy, it will show that they rever dreadnought service anyway - sort of the opposite of the Grey Knights. Their philosophy and cult will kind of be like a mix of the Raven Guard and the Doom Eagles.


Pretty much, it wouldn't shock me if these guys mounted a Dread squad just for the giggles of it. Plus it means they'll suck a lot less then the Grey Knights.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:24 pm

Deepcrush wrote:Plus it means they'll suck a lot less then the Grey Knights.


Hmmm... every model with artificer armor, storm bolter, and force weapon... I'm not sure if that counts as suck.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:36 pm

Scouts:

Scouts are distributed among the squads in each company, and are rotated regularly among the different types of squad (and among the apothecarium and armory, as well) in order to expose each scout to the different specialties and determine each scout's area of expertise. At any given time, a scout is attached to each assault, tac, dev, and bike squad per company. All wear scout armor, of course. Assault-squad scouts will be mounted on scout bikes (twin-linked bolter) and carry a bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades, and a shotgun. Bike-squad scouts will trade their bike's bolters for a grenade launcher, add cluster mines to the squad, and carry a bolt pistol. Dev squad scouts will have bolt pistol, grenades, and a sniper rifle; and tac squad scouts willhave bolt pistol, grenades, and a heavy bolter with hellfire shells.

Captains, command squads, and auxiliaries to come.
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