[40k] new SM design - critique, please?

[40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:39 pm

Well, I was toying with the design of a new SM chapter. It's still a work in progress as to detailed history, organization, etc.; but I was roughly thinking of a newer successor chapter of the Raven Guard (not sure if I want to make up a fix for the gene-seed variances or not.) The Revenants, as I'm thinking of calling the chapter, would expand upon the Raven Guard's specialty and focus on guerilla attacks, ambushes, insertion missions, etc. To that end, I'm thinking of a company organization which doesn't really follow the Codex; rather, have a squad of termies and a squad of assault termies in each of the first three companies, plus assault/dev/tac/and bike and speeder squads in each company. I feel like this would allow for flexibility and more self-sufficiency on deep ops.

However, I decided that they would stick very closely to the Codex as far as heraldry. Here's what I've got so far, and I'd appreciate comments:

assault marine, Second Company

devastator sergeant w/ Mk VIII armor, Third Company

captain, Fourth Company

For regular power-armored marines, I went with the company color being displayed on the squad badge on the right pauldron as well as on the squad number on the left knee.

termie with power fist, First Company

For the termies, helmet is company color as is the squad badge on the right knee. This is the one on which I went back and forth the most. I was toying with the idea of doing the power fist in a bright, caution-tape yellow or something similar, or in the orange of the pauldron trim. Also wasn't sure if I should do the armor behind the helmet in one of the grays. Thoughts?

apothecary

I used a slightly off-color power fist to represent the narthecium. :lol: I gave him a bolt pistol, as most minis of apothecaries I've seen show them with a pistol weapon a/o CC weapon; but if they are more typically armed with bolters, I'd love to hear it.

techmarine

Going with the black theme, I gave the techmarine a darker, rusty red rather than the brighter red more commonly seen on techmarines. Unfortunately, I didn't have a servo-harness or power axe to include in the pic.

lexicanium of the Librarium

Again. I didn't have a psychic hood, so I decided to use the pic to indicate a lexicanium.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Deepcrush » Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:00 pm

I think you should stick with the issues for the Raven Guard. Part of what makes them so effective is that they have to be specialists because of there problems. Maybe for your new chapter they fixed most of the mutations but the downside is slow production. Where the Ultramarines replaced their losses to the Nids in a decade, you would spend a century.

Do you have a weapons detail in mind for your units? I ask because I know the Raven Guard are big on power weapons. Lighting claws, power swords and power fists seem to find their ways commonly through even the most common ranks.

With color, I really liked that Dark Red you used on the Tech Marine. Since its a tech heavy chapter, would there be any way to see more of that across the rest of the chapter?
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:56 pm

Deepcrush wrote:I think you should stick with the issues for the Raven Guard. Part of what makes them so effective is that they have to be specialists because of there problems. Maybe for your new chapter they fixed most of the mutations but the downside is slow production. Where the Ultramarines replaced their losses to the Nids in a decade, you would spend a century.


I was thinking about still missing the Betcher's Gland and still having the same issue with the melanchrome, so that these guys develop the same white skin and black hair/eyes. I thought perhaps about having the AdMech repair the Mucranoid enough to function, but maybe having it's activation be more arduous or painful than normal. Hell, having the company apothecary activate a squad's mucranoids before an extended mission could turn into some weird rite of the chapter cult. And I definitely thought of the slow turnover for recruits. Being both Raven Guard-derived and a new chapter, every bit of gene-seed would have to come from Terra. That led me to think of not having a scout company; rather, scouts would be attached to regular squads and rotate every once in a while until their specialty was found - so, every scout would spend time attached to a tac squad, dev squad, and assault squad (they'd have to use a speeder or bike, obviously,) and spend some field time with an apothecary and a techmarine. This way, no scout's potential is wasted because the recruits are rarer than normal; and each scout has the protection of being among a squad of marines instead of just four other n00bs.

Deepcrush wrote:Do you have a weapons detail in mind for your units? I ask because I know the Raven Guard are big on power weapons. Lighting claws, power swords and power fists seem to find their ways commonly through even the most common ranks.


I hadn't really sketched that out yet. I don't think every sergeant is going to have a pair of lightning claws like the RG, and I think 'fists would be more limited because of the focus on ambushes and first-strikes. Besides, these guys value tactical flexibility, and a power weapon/pistol combo gives you a bit more flexibility than a pair of claws. However, it is still going to be a tech-heavy chapter, so power CC weapons would show up among the officers pretty regularly. Also, plas and melta weapons would show up in a larger ratio than typical among the heavy weapons and assault weapons marines compared to just heavy bolters.

Deepcrush wrote:With color, I really liked that Dark Red you used on the Tech Marine. Since its a tech heavy chapter, would there be any way to see more of that across the rest of the chapter?


Hadn't really thought about where to apply that outside of the techmarines. Maybe it appears in the chapter badge and standards (when and if I get around to them?)
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Deepcrush » Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:50 pm

Mikey wrote: was thinking about still missing the Betcher's Gland and still having the same issue with the melanchrome, so that these guys develop the same white skin and black hair/eyes. I thought perhaps about having the AdMech repair the Mucranoid enough to function, but maybe having it's activation be more arduous or painful than normal. Hell, having the company apothecary activate a squad's mucranoids before an extended mission could turn into some weird rite of the chapter cult. And I definitely thought of the slow turnover for recruits. Being both Raven Guard-derived and a new chapter, every bit of gene-seed would have to come from Terra. That led me to think of not having a scout company; rather, scouts would be attached to regular squads and rotate every once in a while until their specialty was found - so, every scout would spend time attached to a tac squad, dev squad, and assault squad (they'd have to use a speeder or bike, obviously,) and spend some field time with an apothecary and a techmarine. This way, no scout's potential is wasted because the recruits are rarer than normal; and each scout has the protection of being among a squad of marines instead of just four other n00bs.


I like that idea alot. Makes a lot of sense for the problems your chapter will run into.

Mikey wrote:I hadn't really sketched that out yet. I don't think every sergeant is going to have a pair of lightning claws like the RG, and I think 'fists would be more limited because of the focus on ambushes and first-strikes. Besides, these guys value tactical flexibility, and a power weapon/pistol combo gives you a bit more flexibility than a pair of claws. However, it is still going to be a tech-heavy chapter, so power CC weapons would show up among the officers pretty regularly. Also, plas and melta weapons would show up in a larger ratio than typical among the heavy weapons and assault weapons marines compared to just heavy bolters.


For your Sergeants, one lighting claw and a plasma pistol would be good. Gives you good AP and overall ability while not slowing you down.

Mikey wrote:Hadn't really thought about where to apply that outside of the techmarines. Maybe it appears in the chapter badge and standards (when and if I get around to them?)


That would work really well. A tribute to the use of tech in your chapter.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:12 pm

Deepcrush wrote:For your Sergeants, one lighting claw and a plasma pistol would be good. Gives you good AP and overall ability while not slowing you down.


Well, termie sergeants would have a power CC weapon and storm bolter, and assault termie sgts. would have a pair of claws. Assault and tac sgts. would probably have a pistol - probably plasma, but possibly bolt - and power weapon or claw. Dev sgts. would probably have a bolter, as dev squads would deploy at longer range from their targets. I'm actually thinking of leaving out the plasma cannons from the dev squads, as the range of the multi-melta is tolerable, and for long range I'm definitely including missile launchers. Also, while I'm not basing this on an army points system, I just don't like mary-sue-ing everything; so, to balance all the techy upgrades in individual equipment and the extry bikes and speeders, there will be pretty limited armor. It doesn't much fit with their style anyway. I'll figure that bit out later.

Right now, I'm thinking the basic squads would look something like:
termies
1 sgt., power weapon and storm bolter
1x power fist/assault cannon
1x power fist/heavy flamer
1x power fist/storm bolter/cyclone missile launcher
1x chainfist/storm bolter
3x power fist/storm bolter

assault termies
1 sgt., pair of lightning claws
4x pair of lightning claws
3x thunder hammer/storm shield

assault squad
1 sgt., pair of lightning claws*, meltabombs
2x plasma pistol/chainsword, frag and krak grenades
7x bolt pistol/chainsword, frag and krak grenades
* - in Companies 4-9, one assault sergeant will carry a plasma pistol, power weapon, and combat shield instead of the lightning claws
1x scout bike (twin-linked bolters) - shotgun, bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades

devastator squad
1 sgt., bolter, bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades, signum
1x multi-melta, bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades
1x lascannon, bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades
1x plasma cannon, bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades
1x heavy bolter, bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades
5x bolter, bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades
1x scout w/ sniper rifle, bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades

tactical squad
1 sgt., bolt pistol/power weapon, frag and krak grenades
1x plasma gun, frag and krak grenades, bolt pistol
1x multi-melta, frag and krak grenades, bolt pistol
7x bolter, frag and krak grenades, bolt pistol
1x scout w/ heavy bolter/hellfire shells, bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Deepcrush » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:33 pm

Very nice, you did a good job with it. I take it you're going to be light on tanks and Dreadnoughts but what about armored transports?
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:52 pm

Like I said, relatively light on armor. As to APC's - still light, but there will be some. Because of the chapter's tactics, termies will use their homers a lot; a lot of what would normally be tac squads in codex companies will actually be bike or speeder squads. Obviously there will be some Land Raiders for the termie squads and Rhinos for the tac and dev squads, but it will still be fewer than average. Most deployment for non-mounted squads will take place by Thunderhawk or pod. I haven't gotten into exact numbers or variants yet.

Won't be many dreadnoughts at all, simply because the chapter's young enough not to have any higher-ups be mostly dead enough to get stuck in one.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Deepcrush » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:05 pm

Looks like you've got a good plan going. Hope to have mine just as far along shortly.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:35 pm

To all TT players - Deep, Sionnach, Kendall (if he can pry himself away from FB,) and any others - I've heard both good and bad about including a lascannon in the dev squads. Certainly, it packs a long-range anti-armor punch at the expense of anti-infantry ROF. My thought process was that the multi-melta provides the up-close punch, the lascannon the long-range; the missile launcher can kill lots of stuff before they ever get into firing range, but is slow to fire, where the other two can pick up that ROF slack; and the heavy bolter and regular bolter troops provide anti-infantry protection for the other big guns. What are your thoughts about the lascannon vs. a second missile launcher or a plasma cannon?
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Deepcrush » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:46 pm

To be honest I was never a big fan of the MLs. They make sense for Terminators as it frees their hands but for regular Marines I don't see the point. If I had the choice, depending on the mission I would take plasma or las-cannon. Dev squads are hard hitting anti-tank. So you should arm them as such.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:54 am

Hmmm, left it in the dev squad, replaced it with a multi-melta in the tac squad. A little further thinking:

bike squad
(each bike has a twin-linked bolter)
1x sergeant, plasma pistol, meltabombs/frag and krak grenades
1x plasma gun, frag and krak grenades
1x bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades
1x attack bike (multi-melta, twin-linked bolter,) bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades
1x scout bike (Astartes grenade launcher) - shotgun, bolt pistol, cluster mines

land speeder squad
1x Land Speeder Typhoon (heavy bolter, Typhoon missile launcher)
2x Land Speeder Tornado (multi-melta, assault cannon)

Actual company disposition, transports, and chapter fleet to follow.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:11 pm

Now that I'm still thinking, I may replace the missile launcher with a plasma cannon in a few of the dev squads. After all:
Image
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Deepcrush » Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:53 pm

They so are! :laughroll:
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Deepcrush » Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:55 pm

Mikey wrote:Hmmm, left it in the dev squad, replaced it with a multi-melta in the tac squad. A little further thinking:

bike squad
(each bike has a twin-linked bolter)
1x sergeant, bolt pistol/chainsword, krak grenades/meltabombs
1x plasma gun, frag grenades
1x flamer, frag grenades*
2x "standard" w/ frag grenades
1x attack bike (multi-melta, twin-linked bolter) w/ frag grenades
* Not all bike squads will include the flamer marine

land speeder squad
1x Land Speeder Typhoon (heavy bolter, Typhoon missile launcher)
2x Land Speeder Tornado (multi-melta, assault cannon)

Actual company disposition, transports, and chapter fleet to follow.


Oh, a six bike squad? That would scare some piss out of people.
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Re: [40k] new SM design - critique, please?

Postby Mikey » Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:46 pm

Near as I can tell, a full bike squad is 4 + a sergeant, plus the availability to add an attack bike = 6.
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