Astounding discovery: Faster-than-light particle

Re: Astounding discovery: Faster-than-light particle

Postby Captain Seafort » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:38 pm

If all physics is wrong, then so are the formulae for KE and conservation of momentum. This means that a rapidly accelerating set of knuckles will have little or no effect if they connect with a human nose. Do you think one of this anti-physics crowd would be willing to help confirm this experimentally?
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Re: Astounding discovery: Faster-than-light particle

Postby Mikey » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:54 pm

Tyyr wrote:I am starting to hate this discovery. If I have to hear one more dumbass cry, "Physics is wrong! Now we have to throw it all out!" I'm gonna choke a bitch.


Spoken like someone who equates "dumbass" with "different than me." Engineers should be more open-minded and less elitist than that, though I suppose it's an occupational hazard. True questions about the meaning of this alleged discovery aren't cries of witchcraft or charges against physics; they are declamations that we understand less of physics than we thought - an assertation which is not only true, but proved more true every day.
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Re: Astounding discovery: Faster-than-light particle

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:51 am

GrahamKennedy wrote:I didn't suggest you were moronic.


<shrug> It's a process, and no telling where it will end. If the past is any guide we could still be trying to work this stuff out a thousand years from now. :)

I hope it never ends. :)
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Re: Astounding discovery: Faster-than-light particle

Postby Tyyr » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:53 pm

Mikey wrote:Spoken like someone who equates "dumbass" with "different than me."

No, not really.

Engineers should be more open-minded and less elitist than that, though I suppose it's an occupational hazard.

Open minded about what? People crying that everything we know is wrong? Well I guess I'm a close minded bigot for looking down on people who doubt gravity or think the earth is flat. Anyone with even a passing acquaintance with physics, ie. anyone who's graduated from high school, should be more than aware of the fact that we regularly find out that certain things we held for certainty are in fact wrong. Theories get amended, science marches on. They'd also be aware that while Newtonian physics is technically an approximation that for day to day life it is correct out to about twenty or thirty significant digits. They'd also be aware that relativity has been tested and proven. Physics doesn't go out the window with this discovery if it proves to be true. All that happens is a certain subset of physics that deals with what are already some very odd particles has to be reconsidered.

True questions about the meaning of this alleged discovery aren't cries of witchcraft or charges against physics;

Interestingly enough not what I'm talking about. True questions about this are just fine. I'm talking about the dumbasses who are declaring physics as a whole to now be suspect.
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Re: Astounding discovery: Faster-than-light particle

Postby Mikey » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:09 pm

All of the above relates to this:
Tyyr wrote:True questions about this are just fine. I'm talking about the dumbasses who are declaring physics as a whole to now be suspect.


I haven't seen anyone say that.
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Re: Astounding discovery: Faster-than-light particle

Postby Tyyr » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:25 pm

And I have, and that goes back to my original post about it.

Hey, look at that. If you'd just asked, "Do you really see some people saying that?," rather than being a smug git about it you could have saved us both a lot of typing.
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Re: Astounding discovery: Faster-than-light particle

Postby Mikey » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:45 am

Hmm. Your original post about this aspect of the conversation merely says, "If I have to hear..." Considering that it was posted in this discussion, and did not include any reference to anything heard outside this discussion, conversational language means that the comment was most likely directed at a misunderstanding of other comments within this discussion. Otherwise, one would have said, "I've heard, outside this discussion..."
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Re: Astounding discovery: Faster-than-light particle

Postby Lighthawk » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:50 am

Epic backpedaling there Mikey
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Re: Astounding discovery: Faster-than-light particle

Postby Mikey » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:03 pm

Yes, I suppose expecting someone to say what they mean is backpedaling. Epic ass-kissing there, LH.
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Re: Astounding discovery: Faster-than-light particle

Postby Lighthawk » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:01 pm

That you couldn't understand the context of a simple statement is your own damn fault. Especially given that no one in the thread had made a comment about physics being wrong and needing to be thrown out. Closest we got was you suggesting special relativity might be wrong (Aww, did him hurt your feelings?). Honestly, your attempts to keep twisting the exact wording of the comments is making you look like a far bigger fool than your original comment, which could have been passed off with no real notice by a simple "Oh, thought you were saying something else."

Give it a rest, this has gotten stupid even by the usual "Never surrender, never back down" debating style that is typical here.
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Re: Astounding discovery: Faster-than-light particle

Postby Mikey » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:25 pm

Lighthawk wrote:That you couldn't understand the context of a simple statement is your own damn fault. Especially given that no one in the thread had made a comment about physics being wrong and needing to be thrown out. Closest we got was you suggesting special relativity might be wrong (Aww, did him hurt your feelings?). Honestly, your attempts to keep twisting the exact wording of the comments is making you look like a far bigger fool than your original comment, which could have been passed off with no real notice by a simple "Oh, thought you were saying something else."

Give it a rest, this has gotten stupid even by the usual "Never surrender, never back down" debating style that is typical here.



Way to make a point about misunderstanding statements by citing your misunderstanding of my statement. Indeed, nobody in this thread had made a comment about physics being wrong - which begs the question of why a statement about people saying physics is wrong was included. I do apologize if defending my position is bothering you; in the future, I'll make sure to PM you with any post I might be considering to make sure you're OK with it first.

If "giving it a rest" is your suggestion for debates, why exactly did you post the above?
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Re: Astounding discovery: Faster-than-light particle

Postby Lighthawk » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:57 pm

Mikey wrote:Way to make a point about misunderstanding statements by citing your misunderstanding of my statement. Indeed, nobody in this thread had made a comment about physics being wrong - which begs the question of why a statement about people saying physics is wrong was included.


Gee, I wonder? Because maybe he's heard people saying exactly what he accused them of saying maybe? Could it really be that some of us might have had related experiences with this topic outside of this forum?

I do apologize if defending my position is bothering you; in the future, I'll make sure to PM you with any post I might be considering to make sure you're OK with it first.


Nah, just take that stick out of your ass and I think we'll be okay.

If "giving it a rest" is your suggestion for debates, why exactly did you post the above?


No see, you're misunderstanding things again. That isn't my suggestion for debates, that was my suggest for you, personally, in regards to this individual debate.
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Re: Astounding discovery: Faster-than-light particle

Postby Mikey » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:31 pm

Lighthawk wrote:No see, you're misunderstanding things again. That isn't my suggestion for debates, that was my suggest for you, personally, in regards to this individual debate.


Ah, very good. "You shouldn't speak if you disagree with me" is obviously at the heart of debate. :roll:

Very well. I will abandon any further debate on this subject, and will likewise repost this in another thread that has fallen into the same mire. It appears I have been mistaken about a number of things, to wit:

I hadn't thought that proper debate included the assertion that person A "has a stick up their ass," should "give it up," or was worthy of inferences of the status of non compos mentis for what appears to be the heinous evil of disagreeing with person B. Further, it never occurred to me that disagreeing with a point doesn't necessarily imply misunderstanding of that point; and I will continue (wrongly, according to some) to believe that to assume so is to assume the complete infallibility of that point - an assumption which is at the heart of sheer bloody-mindedness and a glacial, obtuse mindset.

I had also never conceived of the idea that disagreeing with someone's one opinion was a disparagement of that person in general. I will use Tyyr as an example, since he and I appear to be the antipodal parties of these two debates, but the example could apply to anyone equally. Tyyr and I have disagreed about a great many things, from the above discussions to politics to the football teams we follow. At no time, whatever the disagreement may have entailed, have I thought any less of Tyyr's abilities or worth as a person - and, inasmuch as it may have ever crossed my mind, in the absence of evidence to the contrary I've never had occasion to have anything less than utmost respect for his capabilities as an engineer, citizen, or father. With this credo in mind, one can see how utterly outre it would seem to regard his disagreement with me as anything more or less than a disagreement rather than a display of stupidity or personality flaws. I was under the assumption that this idea was universally reciprocated... an assumption, it would seem, which I have to re-examine.

As an aside to LH: I hope you're not upset about our characters' interaction in the CoC game - that had nothing to do with you as a person, and was merely my attempt to "play it to the bone," as it were.
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Re: Astounding discovery: Faster-than-light particle

Postby Lighthawk » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:13 pm

Mikey wrote:Ah, very good. "You shouldn't speak if you disagree with me" is obviously at the heart of debate. :roll:


No, the heart of the debate was pretty much what I said after making my opening smart ass remark, that the debate you and Tyyr were having was stupid, because it was based on a misunderstanding and yet was still going on after the point of misunderstanding had been cleared up. Hence my suggestion to just let it go already.

I'll be honest and say my entire participation in this was due to a pair of pet peeves I have for internet debates in general, and things I see here specifically.

1) The complete inability for people to know how and when to lose. Never mind that a debate really shouldn't be about winning or losing, but comparing ideas or acquiring knowledge. We all know why we get so much into these debates, cause the other guy is just wrong! And I can accept that. But it almost always gets taken to the extreme, where a person can't admit to being wrong, at all, about anything, no matter what. It's why we end up with quote trees ten+ levels high when a debate gets rolling, because we have to be right about EVERYTHING. And when one of those quote branches reaches a point where one side obviously has been proven right to anyone with common sense or provided just a superior argument, instead of accepting that point and refocusing on the debate at large, the "losing" party will continue to pull out greater and greater absurdities to try and attain some kind of victory. Which leads into...

2) One of the more common ways I see people here particularly trying to avoid a branch quote defeat, nit picking on the person's word choice so as to refocus that branch onto that subject, thus completely abandoning the actual subject matter in favor of debating semantics. None of those should be allowed to go beyond four more posts
-Comment
-Nit pick
-More detailed comment
-Acceptance of point

Instead each nit pick leads to more and more detailed explanations of a point that is already plainly obvious as being what the person originally meant, but the other person just continues to nit pick more and more, and by which point it's all pretty much pointless, because the actual subject matter of the debate has been long forgotten under the mess of quotes and counter-quotes focused on word choice rather than meaning.

And that's frankly what I saw happening here, and just couldn't keep my mouth shut about it.

Snip


I had a bunch of things I wanted to say, but I'm not going to because none of it would be nice and some part of me is insisting I stop being a jerk about things, so whatever. Rant read and I'll keep it in mind.

As an aside to LH: I hope you're not upset about our characters' interaction in the CoC game - that had nothing to do with you as a person, and was merely my attempt to "play it to the bone," as it were.


Not at all, I wouldn't have played along with it otherwise. Rest assured, I'll tell you straight if I have a problem.
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Re: Astounding discovery: Faster-than-light particle

Postby Mikey » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:35 pm

All well said, LH. To cite a more mundane adage, we all know that opinions are like assholes - everyone's got one, and they usually stink. I certainly don't have the hubris to claim that I'm above the rather typical behavior of which you speak, nor most likely is anybody that we're ever likely to encounter. That said, while I can hurl abuse and invective with anyone, it's not an activity I enjoy too much; so I'd rather speak my piece about the direction of the discussion, as above, and exit a situation which would otherwise lead to a lot of bad stuff and precious little good stuff.
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