Crime hypothetical

Re: Crime hypothetical

Postby Graham Kennedy » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:35 pm

Mikey wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote:
Mark wrote:I disagree. I think it's central to any decision I might make on the topic.

If you can't/won't accept the hypothetical, that's fine.


Actually, I wrote that. And it's not a question of accepting a hypothetical situation or not; it's a question of being "disallowed" to state my opinion by saying that one of the important determinants of my opinion is suddenly and inexplicably beyond the pale of the hypothetical.


Doh, mixed the names up, sorry.

It's not "suddenly and inexplicably" beyond the pale. The OP very clearly stated that the pill is the equivalent of a long successful rehabilitation. If that's not enough for you then you cannot address the hypothetical. There's nothing wrong with that, it's not a criticism of your intellectual capability, it's just that the information you want to base your decision on isn't part of this, so you can't do it.
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Re: Crime hypothetical

Postby Mikey » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:08 pm

Hmm.
the OP wrote:instantly and completely rehabilitates them


No mention of the method by which the pill operates. Since it is stated to be a pill, it follows that the method is some sort of biochemical alteration of the brain.
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Re: Crime hypothetical

Postby colmquinn » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:57 pm

I had a big reply all ready there, hit submit and then my net connection froze up or DITL had a spazm :confused: , either way the gist of it was...

Assuming that its handwavium that works the pill Mikey what are your gut reactions to the OP?

Which got me thinking... who decides the crime? We all know murder/ rape/ GBH are serious crimes (and assuming the decision of what is a serious crime are somehow programmable into the pill) who decides what is a serious crime is? Is it speaking out against your government a serious enough crime? Theft? Lord knows I've a tankard full of pens I took from work so does that mean I need to report for my Plan C* in the morning (*all rights reserved for future use of the name when you bring the product to market GK)

Sorry for further complicating matters GK but you're really got me thinking on this one :)
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Re: Crime hypothetical

Postby Mikey » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:03 am

My gut reaction, assuming that the pill works through esoteric buddhism or demonic bargains? It scares me. With that sort of instant rehabilitation replacing the penal system, then there is absolutely zero incentive for anyone to avoid criminality. Do I feel like killing someone today? Sure, why not - I'll have to take a pill and won't be able to kill again, but that's all.
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Re: Crime hypothetical

Postby colmquinn » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:10 am

Mikey wrote:My gut reaction, assuming that the pill works through esoteric buddhism or demonic bargains? It scares me. With that sort of instant rehabilitation replacing the penal system, then there is absolutely zero incentive for anyone to avoid criminality. Do I feel like killing someone today? Sure, why not - I'll have to take a pill and won't be able to kill again, but that's all.


So pretty much what I said, thank you. I thought I was the lone voice in the wilderness.

Now how about the who decides the crime issue (I know its not up to Mikey to answer but please feel free).
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Re: Crime hypothetical

Postby Lighthawk » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:44 am

I'd have to agree with Mike and Colm, without a system of punishment the system would fall apart. You'd have people committing crimes because they knew they could get away with it punishment free, probably very nasty crimes due to the mind set of "I can only do this once, so I better do it big!". Then you'd probably have lots of people committing crimes of revenge as they feel said criminals got off too easy, helped by the knowledge that they themselves wouldn't be punished but merely rendered incapable of future criminal acts.

The only way to make the system work would be to make it mandatory for everyone to have to take it beforehand so that no one can ever commit a crime.
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Re: Crime hypothetical

Postby Tsukiyumi » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:36 am

Lighthawk wrote:The only way to make the system work would be to make it mandatory for everyone to have to take it beforehand so that no one can ever commit a crime.


I have an odd suspicion that the elite would be exempt from that clause. Not publicly, of course.
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Re: Crime hypothetical

Postby Lighthawk » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:37 am

I have the odd suspicion you'd never be able to enforce it anyway.
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Re: Crime hypothetical

Postby Tsukiyumi » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:39 am

Lighthawk wrote:I have the odd suspicion you'd never be able to enforce it anyway.


Just put it in the water. Or mixed in with other medication. Or in a flu shot.

You think they'd have to tell people about something like this?
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Re: Crime hypothetical

Postby Lighthawk » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:55 am

Hmmm...I wonder. Would said inability to commit a crime include righteous rebellion upon discovering your government is drugging the populous without their knowledge or consent?
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Re: Crime hypothetical

Postby Mikey » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:20 am

Tricky. No such magic pill could possibly discern morality such as right-minded civil disobedience.
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Re: Crime hypothetical

Postby Mikey » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:21 am

Tricky. No such magic pill could possibly discern morality such as right-minded civil disobedience.
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Re: Crime hypothetical

Postby Deepcrush » Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:36 am

I'd like to know what effects it has on the people its used on. Also if it can be produced in the amounts needed to be used against the population or if its just something that can only be produced in very small supplies. Another thing I'd be concerned over is the end result. Being "completely" cured is a base of opinion. We've seen even on this forum where we have so much in common that we can easily come to blows. Whats the real action behind this pill?
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Re: Crime hypothetical

Postby Mikey » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:16 pm

Exactly my earlier point.
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Re: Crime hypothetical

Postby Graham Kennedy » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:19 pm

Lighthawk wrote:I'd have to agree with Mike and Colm, without a system of punishment the system would fall apart. You'd have people committing crimes because they knew they could get away with it punishment free, probably very nasty crimes due to the mind set of "I can only do this once, so I better do it big!". Then you'd probably have lots of people committing crimes of revenge as they feel said criminals got off too easy, helped by the knowledge that they themselves wouldn't be punished but merely rendered incapable of future criminal acts.

Some interesting thoughts here. The idea of "let's go big since I only have once chance" is one I hadn't thought of. I don't know that it would be something I would think. I mean, my main reason for obeying the law isn't that I'm scared of getting caught, it's rather that I agree with most laws. Under this system everybody can essentially have a single freebie - you can murder somebody, knowing that the only real consequence is that you'll never want to do it again. And yet... even so, I can't imagine myself murdering somebody because of that. The knowledge that I'd most likely be caught and go to prison for a good long time isn't what stops me murdering people, I don't murder people because I believe that it's wrong to do so. The government could abolish all laws against murder and start handing out £100 a time to any murderer, and I still wouldn't kill anybody.

But on the other hand, I'm not sure I feel that way about every law. There are certainly times I've been tempted to smack somebody in the face, and if I knew the only result would be not doing it again then I guess I might be even more tempted. Quite the dilemma.

If somebody killed one of my relatives... hmmm. I like to hope I wouldn't want revenge, but I don't know. It's possible that my emotions would overwhelm my beliefs, I suppose.
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