Figure this one out, oh ye skeptics

Re: Figure this one out, oh ye skeptics

Postby Tyyr » Thu May 13, 2010 1:38 pm

To further prove the case, a gas was released into the room that made the woman vomit. The contents of her stomach were found to include pieces of recently-eaten chapatti and potatoes.


Ouch, imagine if they tried that stunt over here.

Still, if the doctor doing the test won't allow independent verification or publish findings that pretty much tells me this is a crock of shit.
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Re: Figure this one out, oh ye skeptics

Postby Mark » Thu May 13, 2010 8:04 pm

I am one of the most willing to believe in supernatural happenings, and in light of this new evidence, even I am officially now calling bullshit. No independant study? If it was true, you'd think they'd be BEGGING people to verify their claims.
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Re: Figure this one out, oh ye skeptics

Postby Mikey » Thu May 13, 2010 8:55 pm

Yeah, I'll admit that strange sh*t happens, but this "procedure" tends to make one call shenanigans.
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Re: Figure this one out, oh ye skeptics

Postby Monroe » Sat May 15, 2010 5:35 pm

Sionnach Glic wrote:Were they actually watching him bathe, though?

And as Seafort correctly points out, you can go weeks without eating. If this guy's been training himself for long enough, not eating for two weeks, and maybe the few days before to allow his digestive system to clear out, wouldn't be too much of a problem. He can get water from the gargling thing (presumably he said it was a daily "requirement") and simply piss in the bath later on.


I'm playing catch up so sorry if this has already been said but, as you get more and more dehydrated (and gurgling water isn't enough to keep you hydrated) your piss changes colors and smells more potent. They'd notice the tint in the bath.
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Re: Figure this one out, oh ye skeptics

Postby Monroe » Sat May 15, 2010 5:42 pm

Okay without the independent study that does make a huge flaw in his argument. I can see why they wouldn't want one if the people caused the woman to vomit. If some how he was telling the truth that could upset whatever balance he has going. Still, they could at least have an independent group do the blood and tissue samples they took.
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Re: Figure this one out, oh ye skeptics

Postby Captain Seafort » Sat May 15, 2010 6:12 pm

Monroe wrote:I'm playing catch up so sorry if this has already been said but, as you get more and more dehydrated (and gurgling water isn't enough to keep you hydrated) your piss changes colors and smells more potent. They'd notice the tint in the bath.


If he was indeed not drinking anything, and if they were actually observing him properly, and if they gave a damn what their observations told them...
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Re: Figure this one out, oh ye skeptics

Postby Monroe » Sat May 15, 2010 9:13 pm

Alright so I did some more digging. The original article comes from FOX News which to me does more harm to its legitimacy than what Rochey posted.

From wikipedia:

Prahlad Jani, an Indian sadhu who claims to have gone without food for decades,[33] spent ten days under strict observation by physicians at Sterling Hospital, Ahmedabad, India, in 2003.[34] The study was led by Dr Sudhir Shah (http://www.sudhirneuro.org/), a well known and ardent proponent of Jain philosophy[35], the same doctor who led the study of Hira Ratan Manek. Reportedly, during the observation, he was given only 100 millilitres of water a day to use as mouthwash, which was collected and measured after he used it, to make sure he hadn't consumed any. He was reported to enter Samadhi state of consciousness almost daily during meditation. Throughout the observation, he passed no urine or stool, but doctors say urine appeared to form in the bladder, only to be reabsorbed.[33] However, Jani was not engaged in strenuous exercise during the ten-day trial, and longer trials were not recorded under similarly strict observation. Further, his weight did drop slightly during the 10 days, casting some doubt on his claim to go indefinitely without food. Jani claims a goddess sustains him through amrit that filters down through a hole in his palate.[33] The Indian Rationalist Association has criticised the Indian Ministry of Defence for agreeing to take part in the tests, and for being taken in by a "village fraud".[36] Sanal Edamaruku of the Indian Rationalist Association claimed to have been repeatedly denied sending an independent team to survey the room where Jani was held. He also claimed that "this particular hospital, led by this particular doctor, keeps on making these claims without ever producing evidence or publishing research." The Indian Rationalist Association also said that individuals making similar claims have all reportedly been exposed as frauds.[37]

On June 26, 2006, The Discovery Channel aired a documentary called "The Boy with Divine Powers" featuring a 5 minute interview with Prahlad Jani and Dr. Sudhir Shah.[38][39]

As of April 22, 2010, new tests are being conducted on Prahlad Jani under surveillance of 35 doctors and researchers of Defence Institute of Physiology & Allied Science (DIPAS).[40][41][42]

Rajiv Sharma, CEO of Sterling Hospital, said, "We wanted to insure Jani's life. However, due to certain legalities, insurance firms refused our request. Finally, the state government insured his life so that the study could be conducted."[43]

Prahlad Jani was kept for fifteen days, until May 6 (tests were completed on Thursday at 3:30pm), and reportedly did not eat, drink or go to the toilet once during the time. This was apparently shown by blood tests, hormone profiles, MRIs and angiographs. The doctors also claimed to have found that he was "more healthy than someone half his age."

During the study, a protocol of round-the-clock surveillance was followed with the help of CCTV cameras and personal observation. Mataji (Prahlad Jani) was taken out for MRI, USG, and X-ray examination and exposure to sun under continuous video recording.[44]

"During the tests we found that in Prahalad Jani's bladder, the amount of liquid fluctuates even when he does not pass urine," said a member of the team of medical experts that conducted medical tests. Mataji's lung functions is quite normal, as per reports by Dr. Mukesh Patel and his team.

Dr. G. Ilavazahagan, director, DIPAS (a heavily funded branch of India's Defence Research and Development Organisation), said, "The exercise of taking this yogi under a medical scanner is to understand which energy supports his existence, if not food or water. And if at the end of three months by which we plan to come out with observations based on this 15-day check up, we are able to reach to an explanation of this hypothesis - it would tremendously benefit mankind. The observations derived from this case study can help many soldiers, victims of calamities and astronauts - who often have to survive without food or water for long spells."[45]

Dr. Urman Dhruv, a physician, said, "We are collecting data on a person who has lived on an alternative pathway compared to an ordinary person. The comparative study of his reports of the tests conducted in 2003 and results of the recent and on-going tests would throw light on the process of aging in Jani's body - which seems to have undergone some type of genetic transformation."[45]

Prahlad Jani grew up in Charod village in Mehsana district.[33] According to Jani's version of events,[46], he left his home in Rajasthan at the age of seven, and went to live in the jungle.

When he reached the age of 11, he underwent a religious experience during which he became a follower of the Hindu goddess Amba. In her honour, he chose to dress as a female devotee, wearing a red sari-like garment, nose-ring, bangles and crimson flowers in his shoulder-length hair. In return, Jani believes that the goddess has sustained him ever since by feeding him with a lifegiving, invisible "elixir", which has supposedly given him the strength to continue without food or water.

For at least the past 40 years, Jani has been living, hermit-like, in a cave in the jungles close to the Gujarati temple of Ambaji. He rises at 4am, spending most of the day meditating. Amongst his followers and devotees he is commonly known as Mataji ("[a manifestation of] The Great Mother"). This name is also frequently used by Indians (regardless of their religious views) with reference to Prahlad Jani.


Goes into much more detail. It says the water he gurgled was remeasured afterwards- which is good. However, this wiki article talks about a different test where he sent 10 days under observation. He did lose weight a little bit which is a score for the skeptics. But for those who believe on the second test- the one which started this thread, blood tests confirmed he didn't eat. He also has urine appear and disappear in his bladder- whatever that means. And to strike another point against skeptics, he lives as a hermit. Most of the frauds who travel India are pretty wealthy.

He's been tested twice, that says something.
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Re: Figure this one out, oh ye skeptics

Postby Sionnach Glic » Sat May 15, 2010 9:17 pm

"You've all been selected for this mission because you each have a special skill. Professor Hawking, John Leslie, Phil Neville, the Wu-Tang Clan, Usher, the Sugar Puffs Monster and Daniel Day-Lewis! Welcome to Operation MindFuck!"
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Re: Figure this one out, oh ye skeptics

Postby Monroe » Sun May 16, 2010 12:35 am



yah, I know you already posted that. Above I said I would count more believability points off it on the fact its coming from FIXED News than anything you posted.
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Re: Figure this one out, oh ye skeptics

Postby Tyyr » Sun May 16, 2010 1:49 am

He's been tested twice by people who won't publish findings or allow independent confirmation of their findings. That says a hell of a lot more.
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Re: Figure this one out, oh ye skeptics

Postby Sionnach Glic » Sun May 16, 2010 9:40 am

Aye. Even Faux News occasionaly posts something credible. And even then I've heard it reported in other news sources. It's the lack of any real independant verification, along with the fact that someone pulled this stunt once before and were found to be a fraud, that makes it a clear fake.
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Re: Figure this one out, oh ye skeptics

Postby Aaron » Sun May 16, 2010 11:35 am

If your not allowing independent confirmation, then you may as well be foaming at the mouth for all I care. Peer review exists for a reason, I'm not even remotely connected to the scientific community and even I realize that bit.
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Re: Figure this one out, oh ye skeptics

Postby Sionnach Glic » Sun May 16, 2010 12:18 pm

Indeed. Even if it's a relatively believable claim, I'd be dubious to accept its truth without an independant examiner coming along and say "yeah, he's right." Some guy claims to have gone without food and water for 70 years? Total BS.
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Re: Figure this one out, oh ye skeptics

Postby Mikey » Sun May 16, 2010 12:43 pm

I think that what sealed it as BS for me wasn't the lack of verification itself, but the researcher's unwillingness to allow verification. We are taught from the earliest time possible that a key factor of valid scientific research is replicability.
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Re: Figure this one out, oh ye skeptics

Postby Sionnach Glic » Sun May 16, 2010 1:02 pm

Indeed. If someone is actively trying to prevent other people verifying his story, it's pretty clear he's making shit up.
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