Obama sets Mars goal for America

Re: Obama sets Mars goal for America

Postby Sonic Glitch » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:28 am

Captain Seafort wrote:
Monroe wrote:And to answer your earlier statement, many people think the Moon is a necessary stepping stone towards Mars. Like on the Moon you could build a larger rocket than you could on Earth.


I don't think the Moon as a construction site is the key reason, so much as to gain experience. The atmosphere of the two (or lack thereof) is almost identical, so training could take place there in much more realistic conditions than could be achieved on Earth.

Aye, that's what I said in a debate with someone else via my dads facebook. this person claimed that we do not need to practice building on the moon as we can build self-contained environments on Earth; she referenced Biosphere 2 citing that even tho it failed we learned a lot. My reply was that building a self-contained biosphere on Earth is one thing, on the moon or Mars it's something else. Ah yes, here is the exchanged:

Some Lady wrote:Besides, there's no reason to actually go to the Moon just to develop self-sustaining habitats when you can do all that work right here in a much ... See Moresafer environment (i.e., Biosphere 2 out in Arizona, which was actually a private venture -- yes, they failed, but they learned a lot in the process).

I wrote:"here's also a difference between building/developing something on Earth, in an environment we've evolved in, are used to and know how to operated and an environment with 1/3 or 1/6th of our gravity and no appreciable atmosphere to provide air or a magnetic field to protect from solar radiation. While things like Biosphere 2 are a fantastic idea, ... See Moreif the biosphere were to fail or the building were to collapse there'd still be a nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere outside to breath; there is still a magnetic field protecting from hard radiation, there are still plants and animals outside of the biosphere to survive on. That's a little different from trying to created a foothold of life on a Barren Heap of Rock."
"All this has happened before --"
"But it doesn't have to happen again. Not if we make up our minds to change. Take a different path. Right here, right now."
User avatar
Sonic Glitch
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
 
Posts: 5821
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 1:11 am
Location: Any ol' place here on Earth or in space. You pick the century and I'll pick the spot

Re: Obama sets Mars goal for America

Postby Tyyr » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:31 am

Not entirely. Long term using the moon for fuel and some basic materials would make it easier. That's a lot of technology development and construction away though. Long term its a good idea but its not really going to help a Mars shot anytime soon.

It's largely an experience goal. Remember there's no one in the US today who's designed a man capable rocket. With the designers starting largely from scratch its not a bad idea to practice on the target 3 days away instead of 9 months away.
User avatar
Tyyr
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 10654
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:49 pm
Location: Jeri Ryan's Dressing Room, Shhhhh

Re: Obama sets Mars goal for America

Postby Sonic Glitch » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:33 am

Tyyr wrote:It's largely an experience goal. Remember there's no one in the US today who's designed a man capable rocket. With the designers starting largely from scratch its not a bad idea to practice on the target 3 days away instead of 9 months away.

Aye. Someone else also posted this comment to the debate, and it's quite true.

Some Dude wrote:But what I don't understand is this: our last moon landing was 37 years ago. The youngest people who worked on that project are in their 60s now. An entire generation of aerospace people have never seen anything fly higher than the couple hundred miles at which the space shuttle orbits. I would think a return to the moon is a necessary shakedown cruise to get the scientific community ready for Mars. It's not a question of, "Does someone somewhere know this technology." Knowledge doesn't work that way. It's a matter of "Can I find 500 scientists and engineers who have current work experience on this technology."
"All this has happened before --"
"But it doesn't have to happen again. Not if we make up our minds to change. Take a different path. Right here, right now."
User avatar
Sonic Glitch
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
 
Posts: 5821
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 1:11 am
Location: Any ol' place here on Earth or in space. You pick the century and I'll pick the spot

Re: Obama sets Mars goal for America

Postby Toadnuke » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:25 am

I assume the practice run would be landing on the asteroid that he mentioned. :P
User avatar
Toadnuke
Petty officer second class
Petty officer second class
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:15 pm

Re: Obama sets Mars goal for America

Postby Tyyr » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:03 pm

Not the same. The thing is that an asteroid has pretty much zero gravitational pull. It requires no specialized landers, no significant amount of fuel to be carried to take off again. It's a much simpler target and while its a decent test of navigation and the habitability of a space craft its not as good a dress rehearsal as the moon.
User avatar
Tyyr
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 10654
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:49 pm
Location: Jeri Ryan's Dressing Room, Shhhhh

Re: Obama sets Mars goal for America

Postby Mikey » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:48 pm

Indeed. I think the final goal of landing on an asteroid id to practice enough until we're ready to harvest resources.
"We've been over this. We don't shoot first and ask questions later."
"Of course! We never ask questions."
User avatar
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
 
Posts: 33075
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:04 am
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA

Re: Obama sets Mars goal for America

Postby Reliant121 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:34 pm

I think asteroid bases would be an ideal way to provide resources for a moon base, however the pure distance to get there is a significant hindrance.
"He was the best of us. They struck without provocation, there was no reason. Animals! Brutal! They deserve no mercy! Strike them down, follow them back to their base and kill all of them, all of them! No mercy!" - Delenn
User avatar
Reliant121
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 12066
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:00 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

Re: Obama sets Mars goal for America

Postby Mikey » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:36 pm

Reliant121 wrote:I think asteroid bases would be an ideal way to provide resources for a moon base, however the pure distance to get there is a significant hindrance.


I meant resources for us down here. The asteroid belt is a couple places out of order to provide resources for lunar usage.
"We've been over this. We don't shoot first and ask questions later."
"Of course! We never ask questions."
User avatar
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
 
Posts: 33075
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:04 am
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA

Re: Obama sets Mars goal for America

Postby Reliant121 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:48 pm

Fair point.
"He was the best of us. They struck without provocation, there was no reason. Animals! Brutal! They deserve no mercy! Strike them down, follow them back to their base and kill all of them, all of them! No mercy!" - Delenn
User avatar
Reliant121
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 12066
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:00 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

Re: Obama sets Mars goal for America

Postby Tyyr » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:41 pm

There's no real reason to mine an asteroid to supply the moon. Like Mikey said, the distance alone is a huge hindrance. Also, most of the "raw materials," you need for a moon base are present there already. You can do amazing things with concrete in 1/6th G. Your need for steel and heavy metals is very reduced in a moon base.
User avatar
Tyyr
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 10654
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:49 pm
Location: Jeri Ryan's Dressing Room, Shhhhh

Re: Obama sets Mars goal for America

Postby Mikey » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:08 pm

Tyyr wrote:There's no real reason to mine an asteroid to supply the moon. Like Mikey said, the distance alone is a huge hindrance. Also, most of the "raw materials," you need for a moon base are present there already. You can do amazing things with concrete in 1/6th G. Your need for steel and heavy metals is very reduced in a moon base.


Yeah, in 1/6th Earth's G, you'd have to have a very big and unsound building to even require rebar.
"We've been over this. We don't shoot first and ask questions later."
"Of course! We never ask questions."
User avatar
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
 
Posts: 33075
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:04 am
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA

Previous

Return to Science, Philosophy and Theology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest