Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

Re: Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

Postby Captain Seafort » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:57 pm

Deepcrush wrote:Ask the kid if they want to live or die. Its really simple as far as I see it.


Children are not mentally competent to make such important decisions - their brains are still developing and their judgement isn't good enough. If you're talking 16+ then there's room for debate but before then important decisions, including withholding lifesaving treatment, are the responsibility of their parents, or the state if the parents are demonstrably incompetent to do so.
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Re: Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

Postby Sionnach Glic » Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:01 pm

Deepcrush wrote:Ask the kid if they want to live or die. Its really simple as far as I see it.


If the kid's five years old then it's hardly competant to make decisions like this.

Graham summed up my own view nicely. Feel free to believe what you want, and feel free to teach your kids about your beliefs. I may disagree with those beliefs, but you're perfectly free to practice and teach them, as it should be.
When those beliefs start to bring harm - and perhaps death - to another living creature, though, then you've got a problem.
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Re: Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

Postby Deepcrush » Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:46 pm

Maybe concerns of life are valued less in Europe. But when I was five, I already knew most the things in my area that could kill me and I knew I didn't want it to happen.

So, very simple. Of course you can feel free to disagree since not everyone wants to live.
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Re: Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

Postby Nickswitz » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:35 pm

Yeah, I'm in the same boat as deep, when I was 6 I understood death as well as my beliefs and wouldn't have agreed to the operation due to my beliefs.
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Re: Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

Postby Tyyr » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:36 pm

I strongly doubt ANY 6 year old is prepared to make serious life or death choices.
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Re: Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

Postby Reliant121 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:38 pm

Nickswitz wrote:Yeah, I'm in the same boat as deep, when I was 6 I understood death as well as my beliefs and wouldn't have agreed to the operation due to my beliefs.


With no offense intended, this sounds distinctly like Indoctrination. When I was 6, I was far too happy eating flowerbeds to be concerned with religion.
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Re: Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

Postby Sionnach Glic » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:39 pm

Even if that is so, you can't make policies based on a handful of people. The overwhelming majority of five year olds are not competant to make such a decision. They'll just do what their parents tell them, and trust it's right.

And, needless to say, the entire concept of giving the kid choice goes out the window if said child is two or three.
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Re: Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

Postby Nickswitz » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:43 pm

Well yeah, up til about 5 the kid barely knows what the world around him is.

Reliant121 wrote:With no offense intended, this sounds distinctly like Indoctrination. When I was 6, I was far too happy eating flowerbeds to be concerned with religion.


Yeah, and I was interested in religion since I can remember. My family has been quite religious since forever, and I believed that it was right, I guess based on my parents, but I would have said no to it without my parents being in the room with me.
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Re: Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

Postby Graham Kennedy » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:47 pm

I don't care what continent they're from, young children are not judged competent to make decisions for themselves by any sane society. If their parents won't act in their best interests then courts should.
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Re: Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

Postby Captain Seafort » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:05 pm

Nickswitz wrote:Yeah, and I was interested in religion since I can remember. My family has been quite religious since forever, and I believed that it was right, I guess based on my parents, but I would have said no to it without my parents being in the room with me.


Which pretty much confirms Reliant's impression. If you think you were competent to make life or death decisions (as opposed to parroting back religious dogma) at five years old then you're an idiot.
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Re: Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

Postby The piman » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:17 pm

Nickswitz wrote: Yeah, and I was interested in religion since I can remember. My family has been quite religious since forever, and I believed that it was right, I guess based on my parents, but I would have said no to it without my parents being in the room with me.


so how would you compare yourself with a Christian Scientist? do you think all things are actually spiritual in nature and that anything that appears to be material is actually misinterpreted?
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Re: Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

Postby Nickswitz » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:32 pm

The piman wrote:so how would you compare yourself with a Christian Scientist? do you think all things are actually spiritual in nature and that anything that appears to be material is actually misinterpreted?


Um... no, theres a huge difference between interested in religion and stupid...

If someone came to me and said no, that tree isn't really a tree, it's a spirit being I would look him in the eye and call him a total moron.

I don't know how this had anything to do with what I said either... :confused:
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Re: Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

Postby The piman » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:37 pm

Nickswitz wrote: Um... no, theres a huge difference between interested in religion and stupid...

If someone came to me and said no, that tree isn't really a tree, it's a spirit being I would look him in the eye and call him a total moron.

I don't know how this had anything to do with what I said either... :confused:


Christian Science would say the same things that you said about staying away from the whole blood treatments idea. I was curious to see how far in other directions you would take it.
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Re: Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

Postby Nickswitz » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:45 pm

Ok, well the reason behind us not taking blood is because the Bible says refrain from blood... therefore we don't take blood. I'm not sure about Christian scientists at all personally, I've never looked into them...
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Re: Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

Postby Captain Seafort » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:46 pm

Nickswitz wrote:Ok, well the reason behind us not taking blood is because the Bible says refrain from blood... therefore we don't take blood.


And if the bible told you to take a pickaxe to someone's head? :roll:
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