Medical Help Vs. Religious Beliefs

[The piman]

there is a growing controversy on whether or not parents have the right to deny their children medical help/attention based on their (the parents') religious/moral beliefs. is this a valid reason for denying children needed help?

[Nickswitz]

I don't really see a problem with it...

But that's because I am a Jehovah's Witness, and do not believe in using blood for any purpose. Therefore people sometime say we are putting our children in danger... But it is one of our deep seated religious beliefs, which is why I stick to it.

[Deepcrush]

Faith is a choice, so as I see it the choice should be left to the person suffering and not their parents.

[Sionnach Glic]

A child can't competantly give consent to or refuse treatment. If a kid dies or suffers due to their parent's beliefs, throw said parent in jail for child abuse.

[shran]

But that's because I am a Jehovah's Witness, and do not believe in using blood for any purpose. Therefore people sometime say we are putting our children in danger... But it is one of our deep seated religious beliefs, which is why I stick to it.

You don't have to endanger children or anyone with refusing to use blood. there are alternatives such as artificial blood. Interestingly enough, I learned that from the Witnesses themselves, when they once came to my door. So that argument is basically out of the window, if you condone using artificial blood.

[Reliant121]

The child is in no position to make a choice. thats the first thing to get clear.

The second is where it gets hazy. What do you want more? You're child to live, or you're god to see your respecting his wishes (according to the tenets of that particular faith?)

For me, its a blindingly obvious choice: Child comes first, apologize to god later.



However, I am not religious.

[Captain Seafort]

You don't have to endanger children or anyone with refusing to use blood. there are alternatives such as artificial blood. Interestingly enough, I learned that from the Witnesses themselves, when they once came to my door. So that argument is basically out of the window, if you condone using artificial blood.

And how much artificial blood is there in the world? How long does it last? How easy or otherwise is it to produce? How expensive is it? How effective is it compared to real blood? What types can it be produced in? The fact that there are still huge campaigns to persuade people to donate blood, and that the artificial stuff is rare enough that the majority of people don't even know it exists, strongly suggests that it isn't the magical solution to blood shortages that JWs seem to treat it as. I'd advise taking the claims of any door-to-door salesmen with a large helping of salt.

[Nickswitz]

You don't have to endanger children or anyone with refusing to use blood. there are alternatives such as artificial blood. Interestingly enough, I learned that from the Witnesses themselves, when they once came to my door. So that argument is basically out of the window, if you condone using artificial blood.

And how much artificial blood is there in the world? How long does it last? How easy or otherwise is it to produce? How expensive is it? How effective is it compared to real blood? What types can it be produced in? The fact that there are still huge campaigns to persuade people to donate blood, and that the artificial stuff is rare enough that the majority of people don't even know it exists, strongly suggests that it isn't the magical solution to blood shortages that JWs seem to treat it as. I'd advise taking the claims of any door-to-door salesmen with a large helping of salt.

Artificial blood is actually not really fake blood, but it's more different method, at least that's all I can think of. I know because of witnesses there have been a lot of non-blood procedures. Such as blood renewal, I believe it's called, basically running the person's blood through an artificial heart to keep it running through the body, especially the heart surgery. Means you can disconnect the heart and the body still runs.

Um... I don't have the others at hand to look at right now... as well as having to work a lot today, but tomorrow if your still interested I'll give you some more.

[Captain Seafort]

Artificial blood is actually not really fake blood, but it's more different method, at least that's all I can think of.

Artificial, therefore not from bone marrow, therefore fake. The fact that there are still huge drives for donations strongly suggests that it isn't as good, can't be produced in bulk, or is too expensive. Therefore we still need to use real blood.

I know because of witnesses there have been a lot of non-blood procedures.

Bully for you, although I somewhat doubt that such a tiny minority of the worlds population are solely responsible for developing alternatives. In the meantime children are still dying because the idiotic scum they have for parents refuse to let doctors treat them appropriately.

Such as blood renewal, I believe it's called, basically running the person's blood through an artificial heart to keep it running through the body, especially the heart surgery. Means you can disconnect the heart and the body still runs.

Great - given the shortage, the more we can do to limit usage the better. It doesn't change the fact that it can't replace blood - if someone springs a leak you need to plug it and replenish what was lost.

[Tyyr]

Faith is a choice, so as I see it the choice should be left to the person suffering and not their parents.

And legally a child can't make those choices, that's the problem. Till the kid hits 18 their parents have sway over them.

Personally I think that after you reach the age of majority you can deny medical treatment all you want, your choice. If you'd rather die that get a blood transfusion then... well ok that's on you, but you can't force that on someone else, not even your child. Until the kid can legally make decisions for themselves the parents can't decide they should die for the parent's beliefs.

[Nickswitz]

Bully for you, although I somewhat doubt that such a tiny minority of the worlds population are solely responsible for developing alternatives. In the meantime children are still dying because the idiotic scum they have for parents refuse to let doctors treat them appropriately.

I've shown the links before actually. Doctors have said that witnesses are the reason behind most of them. Because although they are a very small percentage they are a very large percentage that argue about getting blood.

I'm going to try and find those links again for you...

[Captain Seafort]

Because although they are a very small percentage they are a very large percentage that argue about getting blood.

Which should at least be a hint as to who's got their head screwed on straight and who hasn't.

Personally I think that after you reach the age of majority you can deny medical treatment all you want, your choice. If you'd rather die that get a blood transfusion then... well ok that's on you

Exactly my take on it. I have no problem with Darwin Awards. I do have a problem with child abuse amounting to manslaughter.

[GrahamKennedy]

there is a growing controversy on whether or not parents have the right to deny their children medical help/attention based on their (the parents') religious/moral beliefs. is this a valid reason for denying children needed help?

In my view a person's right to their belief ends when that belief harms another. Religious people are welcome to refuse medical treatment for themselves if they want, it's their body to harm if they want to harm it. But when they harm their children instead, I think society has a right and duty to say "No" to that.

To me it's really very little different from if a person's religion demanded that they rape their children once a week between the ages of seven and eight, or slit the throat of all female children at age ten. Such things simply would not be allowed to happen, and to my mind refusing medical care for a sick child is absolutely no different to inflicting harm on a well child.

[Tsukiyumi]

Artificial, therefore not from bone marrow, therefore fake. The fact that there are still huge drives for donations strongly suggests that it isn't as good, can't be produced in bulk, or is too expensive. Therefore we still need to use real blood...

I think it just needs more funding.

[Deepcrush]

Ask the kid if they want to live or die. Its really simple as far as I see it.