Suicide

[Tsukiyumi]

Now, myself, I think it's a fundamental personal decision as long as no one else gets hurt, but the law generally takes a different view.

I was wondering what everyone's take on the whole issue is; whether you know anyone that has done it, whether you object to it on religious grounds or just moral terms, and why, etc.

Personally, I have one friend who worked as a veterinary technician that injected himself with the same cocktail of drugs they kill animals with, and a friend who shot himself. While it hurt other people emotionally, I still respect their decisions.

[Nickswitz]

I personally find it wrong, but I can see cases where I would not find it hard to understand.

I don't even know where Jehovah's Witnesses stand on the matter... It's never come up for me, however I know a few people who have committed suicide, but mostly for selfish reasons, which I do not see as forgivable, I can see if you have a deadly and painful disease, and killing yourself so you don't have to deal with that, although I would never suggest it, if someone said they would do such a thing I would not judge them on that, I wouldn't care truthfully.

[Lt. Staplic]

this is an interesting question...I have been fortunate enough to not have anyone I know commit suicide.

I find the concept morally and religiously wrong. IMO it's a selfish and/or cowardice decision in most circumstances, and I wouldn't ever even consider it as an option for myself.

However I also respect another's opinions and decisions.

I'm not sure how I would feel if someone I knew committed suicide, and I suppose it would depend on the reason.

(By the way, disease is not one of the acceptable situations IMO)

[Mark]

The biggest obstacle for me is if the person is completely of sound mind and emotion while making this decision. I don't know of anybody that sat down one day, said "The hell with this, I'm bored. Let's see whats next." and killed themselves. Everybody that I know that either HAVE killed themselves or tried were suffering from either a temporary or permanent mental or emotional disorder.

I don't think we should just say "ok" if somebody decides to kill themselves. They most likely WILL change their minds with proper treatment (either therapy or meds), or once they come to accept whatever has happened to them and how to process it.

Another little known fact about myself. The last day I got high, I was preparing to kill myself. I'd traded for 50 Vicodine and stole a bottle of vodka. I was going to go down by Lake Wilson (one of the few lakes out here) where nobody could find me to stop me or try and save me, do all the rest of my meth, swallow all the pills, and drain the bottle. I was in a state of complete despair and at the time that seemed like a logical and reasonable solution. I'm still here because another option was presented to me, which was to get clean.

Point of the story? I'm VERY glad today that I didn't do it. If we could speak with the dead, I wonder how many would say it was a good choice?

Now, for terminal and painful illnesses, where there is NO hope for a cure, and alot of suffering....absolutely. In fact, IMO in that case physician assisted suicide SHOULD be a legal and viable option for people.

[Tsukiyumi]

Excellent points, all. This is the sort of discussion I was hoping to produce.

Since Mark was in a sharing mood, I'll reciprocate. When I was 13, I put my mom's .38 revolver to my temple and pulled the trigger.

My hands were shaking, and it went off literally a quarter of an inch from my face; I had powder burns on my cheek and eye, and blood came out of my right ear. I couldn't hear anything from that ear for a few years before it started coming back. The moral of the story is that luck favors idiots (and ships named Enterprise, I hear).

I went for it again three years ago, but a good friend was there to stop me, and I don't forget my debts.

[Sionnach Glic]

Under certain circumstances, such as if they were suffering from an incurable and painful illness, I see no problem with people deciding that their last few days/months/years just aren't worth suffering through and deciding to end it.

[IanKennedy]

Now, myself, I think it's a fundamental personal decision as long as no one else gets hurt, but the law generally takes a different view.

It's pretty difficult to do this and hot hurt someone. For example we would need a new mod, we would miss you greatly. Other people in your life would miss you.

I was wondering what everyone's take on the whole issue is; whether you know anyone that has done it, whether you object to it on religious grounds or just moral terms, and why, etc.

Personally, I have one friend who worked as a veterinary technician that injected himself with the same cocktail of drugs they kill animals with, and a friend who shot himself. While it hurt other people emotionally, I still respect their decisions.

I've known someone who did it. She left a small child behind. Imagine what that child is going through now? Was it there fault, did they not love them enough to stay around? In my experience it always leaves a mess behind. So I'm not in favour, except when the person will die soon anyway (such as terminal cancer) and their end will be painful then I could perhaps see the need to end the suffering.

As for doctors helping the problem is who decides when it's time. It cannot be the doctors or nurses. Both the US and the UK have cases where nurses and doctors where killing people for jollies. This only provides a method of them getting away with it more easily.

[Graham Kennedy]

I wonder about the argument that suicide is selfish because of the effect it has on other people. Isn't it just as selfish for those other people to say that you should go on living a miserable life, enduring constant emotional pain, for their sake?

[Captain Seafort]

So I'm not in favour, except when the person will die soon anyway (such as terminal cancer) and their end will be painful then I could perhaps see the need to end the suffering.

Even there, I don't see the need for suicide, given the quality of modern pain relief. If the quantity of morphine (for example) required to remove said pain is a lethal dose, I don't have a problem with that, but pain relief that proves fatal is a different scenario from assisted suicide.

However suicide is, ultimately, a personal choice. I disagree strong with it, and I'd do my damnedest to stop someone killing themselves, but ultimate if someone's determined enough then there's not much the rest of the world can do about it. What else can be done, make it a capital offence again?

[Nickswitz]

However suicide is, ultimately, a personal choice. I disagree strong with it, and I'd do my damnedest to stop someone killing themselves, but ultimate if someone's determined enough then there's not much the rest of the world can do about it. What else can be done, make it a capital offence again?

Yeah, this is pretty much how I stand, word for word pretty much.

[Lt. Staplic]

but the law generally takes a different view.

I'd still like to know how they plan on prosecuting someone who committed suicide...

[Sionnach Glic]

I wonder about the argument that suicide is selfish because of the effect it has on other people. Isn't it just as selfish for those other people to say that you should go on living a miserable life, enduring constant emotional pain, for their sake?

That's quite a fair point. One I actually hadn't thought of before.

[Tsukiyumi]

...For example we would need a new mod, we would miss you greatly. Other people in your life would miss you...

Well, thanks.

[shran]

What about those who have a terminal disease and are finished with all treatments and know they will de anyway in a relativlely short time?
What about people who said they don't want to live lives as senile old people?
What about people who have a locked-in syndrome and cannot even kill themselves but wish to do so?

[IanKennedy]

So I'm not in favour, except when the person will die soon anyway (such as terminal cancer) and their end will be painful then I could perhaps see the need to end the suffering.

Even there, I don't see the need for suicide, given the quality of modern pain relief. If the quantity of morphine (for example) required to remove said pain is a lethal dose, I don't have a problem with that, but pain relief that proves fatal is a different scenario from assisted suicide.

It's exactly the same thing, it's either suicide or murder, take your pick. Either way doctor assisted death is kinda against the first premise of being a doctor. They take an oath to do no harm and this flies in directly in the face of that oath.

However suicide is, ultimately, a personal choice. I disagree strong with it, and I'd do my damnedest to stop someone killing themselves, but ultimate if someone's determined enough then there's not much the rest of the world can do about it. What else can be done, make it a capital offence again?