Random Hypothetical 2

Re: Random Hypothetical 2

Postby Teaos » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:34 pm

Like when the fire exit is on fire, but people still go that way because it is the FIRE EXIT.
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Re: Random Hypothetical 2

Postby Graham Kennedy » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:06 am

Teaos wrote:Like when the fire exit is on fire, but people still go that way because it is the FIRE EXIT.

There was a case like that here, long ago. An underground train station went up in flames; afterwards, one of the guys who worked there said he had people push past him as he tried to warn them and tell them to leave, and walk down an escalator as smoke and sparks billowed up out of it - literally walking into an inferno so that they could make their train.

Saw a guy once who said that in most disasters, one quarter of people do the obvious thing to save themselves, one half of people stand around and do nothing at all, and the remaining quarter of people do the exact opposite of what they should.
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Re: Random Hypothetical 2

Postby McAvoy » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:19 am

Teaos wrote:My brother got done for a rolling stop once at a stop sign, dead road, no one around, slowed right down to like 2kph rather than total stop and went through. Cop car was parked like 10m up a driveway watching the intersection,


Must have been a bored cop.
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Re: Random Hypothetical 2

Postby Teaos » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:07 am

GrahamKennedy wrote:
Teaos wrote:Like when the fire exit is on fire, but people still go that way because it is the FIRE EXIT.

There was a case like that here, long ago. An underground train station went up in flames; afterwards, one of the guys who worked there said he had people push past him as he tried to warn them and tell them to leave, and walk down an escalator as smoke and sparks billowed up out of it - literally walking into an inferno so that they could make their train.

Saw a guy once who said that in most disasters, one quarter of people do the obvious thing to save themselves, one half of people stand around and do nothing at all, and the remaining quarter of people do the exact opposite of what they should.


On ship we are given similar stats. We're told like 80% of people kind of freeze until someone does something, wether it be good or bad. So we have to get their first and get them to follow us or they would quite literally jump over the side of the boat.
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Re: Random Hypothetical 2

Postby Jim » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:06 pm

I would treat it as a stop sign.
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Re: Random Hypothetical 2

Postby Tsukiyumi » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:35 pm

Teaos wrote:On ship we are given similar stats. We're told like 80% of people kind of freeze until someone does something, wether it be good or bad. So we have to get their first and get them to follow us or they would quite literally jump over the side of the boat.


The numbers that I have always seen are that roughly 80% of people freeze and wait for some authority figure to appear, while 10% run away, and the final 10% actually try to do something useful.

Pretty pathetic, honestly.

As to the OP, I'd stop and wait. I use my turn signals when no one else is around; it's just a good habit to be in.
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Re: Random Hypothetical 2

Postby IanKennedy » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:48 pm

Tsukiyumi wrote:
Teaos wrote:On ship we are given similar stats. We're told like 80% of people kind of freeze until someone does something, wether it be good or bad. So we have to get their first and get them to follow us or they would quite literally jump over the side of the boat.


The numbers that I have always seen are that roughly 80% of people freeze and wait for some authority figure to appear, while 10% run away, and the final 10% actually try to do something useful.

Pretty pathetic, honestly.

As to the OP, I'd stop and wait. I use my turn signals when no one else is around; it's just a good habit to be in.

One has to wonder why the 80% don't follow the 10% that flee?
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Re: Random Hypothetical 2

Postby Tsukiyumi » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:11 pm

Good question. Apparently, they just fail to take any action whatsoever unless instructed to.
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Re: Random Hypothetical 2

Postby Captain Seafort » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:18 pm

IanKennedy wrote:One has to wonder why the 80% don't follow the 10% that flee?


Once they unfreeze most of them probably do.
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Re: Random Hypothetical 2

Postby Atekimogus » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:24 pm

Imho a good way to anwer such hypothetical is to think about the price. What does it cost me and what am I likely to gain.

I do not stop, what do I gain? I gain maybe 4-5 minutes at the most. What can I loose? Well, no matter how sure you think you are, there can always be something you might have overlooked. If it is in the middle of nowhere and they still put up a traffic light maybe it is there for a reason? Maybe there really is a cop-car just hiding somewhere waiting to cash in on you.


So by stopping I will surley loose up to 5 minutes, I might however get into trouble ranging from a ticket to totalling my car. Conclusion....probably not worth it.
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Re: Random Hypothetical 2

Postby McAvoy » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:59 pm

We are just lemmings in hairless ape suits.

You could make a case that people like to be told what to do, where to do it, how to do it, when and why at any given point in their life.
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Re: Random Hypothetical 2

Postby Teaos » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:06 pm

You know the thing I really fucking hated the two times we had an "emergency" on ship. The wanker who tried to help. Standing up telling everyone to stay calm blah blah blah blah blah. Shut up and sit down. If we need help we'll ask for it, if not your just making our lives harder having to deal with you rather than something more important. Like standing around being bored.
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Re: Random Hypothetical 2

Postby McAvoy » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:27 pm

There is always people like that. One incident when I was in the Navy where one of the LOX (liquid oxygen) was leaking. Everyone was freaking out because a LOX explosion is a big one. Well this idiot before any of us (qualified) could get there took it upon himself to move it. Well, LOX is very cold. He lost several layers of skin on his hand. Oh and the thing had a faulty relief valve that was stuck open. So... not going to explode.

On a side note, I just realized when I read wanker, I start to read everything in that fake British accent.
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Re: Random Hypothetical 2

Postby sunnyside » Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:16 pm

Oh, I'd probalby stop. In part because you never can really know there isn't the aformentioned cop parked 10 meters up someones lane, but there is also something to avoiding developing bad habits. I grew up in the country and there are a lot of stop signs that people ignore for exactly those reasons. The result? More accidents and people slowing down when they don't have a stop sign because they know the people in the area are in the habit of ignoring the stop signs on the cross road.

GrahamKennedy wrote:Saw a guy once who said that in most disasters, one quarter of people do the obvious thing to save themselves, one half of people stand around and do nothing at all, and the remaining quarter of people do the exact opposite of what they should.


Hmmm I note that given a 50/50 chance of doing the wrong thing, choosing to stand around doesn't seem to be a bad choice...

IanKennedy wrote:One has to wonder why the 80% don't follow the 10% that flee?


Well, humans do have a natural freeze response left over from trying to not get eaten in the woods by things that have a lot easier time spotting you if you move and can move a lot faster once they've spotted you. But that doesn't last all that long.

After that I think things come down to living in such a complicated world. For some scenarios people beat those odds. For example I don't remember seeing many people either running into a tsunami or just standing there while the floodwaters surge around them.

If you aren't sure what to do, being alert and paying attention can beat going off half cocked.

For example the guy who lost some skin McAvoy mentioned. For another example there was a bomb scare on a train line I travel on, and some people decided to go on a hike on the electrified rail.

I suppose where I really run into this is at work. In industrial plants the things are just too complicated for people to truely wrap their heads around when things start going wrong. Way back when the idea was to just let people think for themselves, but year after year people manage to think themselves into horrible scenarios, and always seem to be able to come up with creative and new ways to work themselves into a close casket funeral, and so there are ever more procedures for more possible scenarios (and procedures for some scenarios that aren't thought to actually even be possible, just in case.)
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