The Customer is NOT always right.

[Tyyr]

so I could effectively kill somebody 'cause he spit on me?

Yeah, if you live in bizzaro-world.

I am happy I don't live in that jurisdiction. I know it might be shitty at some level over here regarding self-defense, but I still prefer it.

How so, do you have no right of self-defense or what?

[SolkaTruesilver]

Also, it's not fuzzy legally at all, at least not here. Assault is assault. Even spitting on someone is assault.

No its really not. Just touching without consent is battery. If he pushed at all then its assault.

so I could effectively kill somebody 'cause he spit on me?

Yeah, if you live in bizzaro-world.

Hitting somebody on the head with a tire iron can definetly lead to serious injury, even death in the circumstances are right (or wrong, depending on where you stand).

If you can defend yourself how you want while under "assault", it may lead to serious, crippling, or even life-threatening injury to the attacking party. Is that right? And that is legal? So you could endanger somebody's life because he spit on you?

I am happy I don't live in that jurisdiction. I know it might be shitty at some level over here regarding self-defense, but I still prefer it.

How so, do you have no right of self-defense or what?

You have no right of escalation in the name of self-defense. If somebody punches you, you can't pull a knife on them. If somebody shoves you, you can't start hammering their face. If somebody pulls a knife on you, you can't pull a gun back.

Just carrying a lethal weapon is illegal to begin with when it's for violent purposes. Self-defense is considered a violent purpose, so you can't just go around carrying a knife without legitimate reason.

I think I prefer it that way, even if it means somebody may get shafted. 'cause it means if an argument with the average Jo becomes heated, I won't be afraid of the other guy pulling a gun on me, or a knife. If you try the reason "what about criminals?", well, I have to tell you I usually don't meet criminals randomly in the street, and criminals aren't usually dumb ennough to try pulling weapons or starting violence just for the heck of it. Mugging just isn't as common as some people make it believe, so the argument is a little weak, used mainly by fear-mongered.

[Tyyr]

Hitting somebody on the head with a tire iron can definetly lead to serious injury, even death in the circumstances are right (or wrong, depending on where you stand).

Not a tire iron, a baseball bat. Slightly different. The potential for injury certainly exists.

If you can defend yourself how you want while under "assault", it may lead to serious, crippling, or even life-threatening injury to the attacking party. Is that right? And that is legal? So you could endanger somebody's life because he spit on you?

You missed Tsuki's part about proportional response. Simply put in this particular case a baseball bat is not considered a deadly weapon. It can be, but it requires either intent or very bad luck. Also, after a single strike the assailant was knocked down and no longer a threat. The truck driver didn't follow up with any further attacks. The assailant was neutralized as a threat. The driver defended himself with what was available and ceased after the assailant was no longer a threat. Also, the weapon was no concealed but plainly displayed.

If the driver had struck the man in the back, continued beating him after he was down, or attacked with intent to kill (very hard to prove regardless) then it wouldn't have been self defense.

Deadly force is allowable in self defense but only in cases where the person being attacked has a reasonable belief that their life is in danger. In such a case using deadly force to defend yourself, not counter attack but defend, is perfectly legal.

You can't just kill someone for pushing you, not even in Texas.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Oh, good then.

*relieved, and buy back the plane tickets for Texas*

[Sonic Glitch]

You can't just kill someone for pushing you, not even in Texas.

Though depending on where you are in Texas, the authorities may be less likely to prosecute...

[SolkaTruesilver]

Are you still allowed to shoot somebody 'cause they trespass on your property?

(not the house. The property)

[Tyyr]

I honestly can't say.

If someone comes on your property and you believe they intend to cause you serious harm you can shoot them though. Typically you don't want to start shooting until they come storming in your house or start trying to break in. Makes the case a little more open and shut.

[Mark]

You all are discussing something that is different from state to state. Here in Hawaii, it is only self defense if you apply an equel level of force. If a guy walks up and punches you, you can kick his ass, but of you pick up a pipe or bottle to help, your in trouble. Now, if you put him on his ass, and he pulls a knife, THEN you can grab said bottle or pipe.

Now, if you have a gun and he has a knife, you can only pull the trigger IF either your life or someone else's is in immediete danger, and you can't escape (yes, your supposed to run before defending yourself legally).

[Captain Seafort]

You all are discussing something that is different from state to state. Here in Hawaii, it is only self defense if you apply an equel level of force. If a guy walks up and punches you, you can kick his ass, but of you pick up a pipe or bottle to help, your in trouble. Now, if you put him on his ass, and he pulls a knife, THEN you can grab said bottle or pipe.

Now, if you have a gun and he has a knife, you can only pull the trigger IF either your life or someone else's is in immediete danger, and you can't escape (yes, your supposed to run before defending yourself legally).

Sane self defence laws? In in the US?

Must be your flag.

[Mark]

It was the influence of the last Queen of Hawaii, I'd imagine

[Angharrad]

That's right, if you wanna do it, then do it! Stupid women's lib sh*t! But if there's a spider or a mouse running across the floor, it's our job to kill it! Funny how it works out that way, huh Tsu?

How's this, I'll hold the door open you run in and kill the spider. Kay?

[Mikey]

#1 - it was a tire-knocker, not a tire iron.

#2 - it wasn't an escalation of force, it was just availing himself of a 14" reach advantage.

#3 - 'round here, at least, if I or my family's safety is threatened by another person's intent, I can use whatever force is necessary to prevent that. I'd damn well better have my "i's" dotted and "t's" crossed, though. Plus, if you do it with things that are already suspect, you'll have a problem. Shotguns, for example, with barrels under 18" are allowed only with a more-restrictive-than-normal, special "any other lethal firearm" license; those with barrels over 18" and an overall length over 26" are OK with a standard license. If I kill an intruder with sawed-off - even if I have the special license - I'm going to have a bigger problem than if I did so with an 18.5" barrel.

[SolkaTruesilver]

The thing is, if I happen to walk on your property in the middle of the night for X,Y, Z reasons. Like my car broke down. Or I got lost on my camping trip. Or whatever. If you happen to shoot me and kill me, you could simply claim that you thought you felt threathened and that you fired to defend your family?

[Mikey]

Not even close. Me feeling threatened by you is NOT the same thing as you presenting a demonstrable threat. You putting your hands on me in an aggressive fashion is.

[Mark]

Not even close. Me feeling threatened by you is NOT the same thing as you presenting a demonstrable threat. You putting your hands on me in an aggressive fashion is.

Plus, its how do you prove a feeling? A guy kicks in your front door with a tire iron in hand........ok. A guy walking up to your front door may be a bit hard to convice a jury.