Tyyr wrote:They were going to occupy a very signifcant portion of the NR fleet and cause serious concerns galaxy wide as ships would be diverted from necessary work elsewhere to deal with them. Bad wording on my part but a small cluster of worlds was going to cause the NR as a whole a great deal of heartburn.
Deepcrush wrote:It is a clear instruction, but its only a single part of the whole and thus a poor manner to use his instructions.
That being the point of my adding his statement on how to force an engagement which is rather important for putting down revolts.
Captain Seafort wrote:The whole was a series of instructions on the best approach with given force ratios. It is, of course, a rough rule of thumb, but it gives a decent impression of the numbers needed to envelop a far weaker force that might otherwise escape and cause galaxy-wide chaos as a raiding force
Captain Seafort wrote:Indeed, but when you're up against the likes of the Yevetha you can't afford to merely attack them - their rather extreme xenophobia means that you have to make sure none of them escape into the wider galaxy. Hence the requirement for complete envelopment.
Deepcrush wrote:A key point of defeating rebellion is never to envelop.
Containment against ships is different then containment on the ground.
The Yevetha problem was a minor issue, simply forcing an engagement would be enough of a control factor no matter who was facing them.
Captain Seafort wrote:Who said anything about rebellions? We were talking about the Yevethan problem. In any event, why not, if you can? The major problem with insurgencies is that their forces are so widely and thinly spread that you can't envelop them effectively.
Captain Seafort wrote:Aye - it's a lot more difficult, especially with hyperdrive, requiring a much stronger force - that's the point I've been making.
Captain Seafort wrote:The problem is a) forcing an engagement and b) making sure none of them escape to cause carnage. As it turned out they fought to the death at their homeworld rather than escape to form an insurgency, but that was unexpected, and certainly not something to rely on.
Deepcrush wrote:First off, our topic started with talking about the Imperials v Rebels.
The Yevethans were also part of a rebellion against the Empire.
You brought up Sun Tzu
So in a case where securing the ground requires ten to one but securing space requires only two to one, you would secure space and preserve resources.
Another lesson of Sun Tzu, attack targets you know your enemy must defend from you...You can always rely on a threat to defend its vitals, anyone who denies to defend their vitals is no longer a threat. Yet another lesson of Sun Tzu.
Captain Seafort wrote:The topic started with a discussion of the Y-wing, B-wing and K-wing. I should know - I wrote it.
Captain Seafort wrote:The Yevethans weren't part of anything - their rebellion was completely independent, and they simply took advantage of the Imperial retreat post-Endor.
Captain Seafort wrote:Simply as an example of the numbers needed to encircle an opponent rather than simply attacking him.
Captain Seafort wrote:Against the Yevetha, what's needed isn't simply to defeat them but to ensure they don't escape into the wide galaxy to cause carnage.
Captain Seafort wrote:Unless they go from acting as a nation-state to acting as terrorists, in which case your problem changes from one of bringing the enemy to battle to defending your own civilian population.
Deepcrush wrote:Topic as in topic we were covering, the thread is a different matter.
You encircle only when needed as it equals a siege which is something that Sun Tzu speaks against as often as possible.
Glassing the planet rather then just containing it seemed to do the trick nicely. Again as Sun Tzu pointed out, force your enemy to battle where they must commit to battle even when you hold a winning advantage. The Vong did this and thus they won.
No matter if they are a nation or a terror cell, when on the offensive the key is to leave you enemy without targets to attack. When on the defensive, leave only pointless targets open thus weakening your enemy as they attack. The key to the strategy is still the same regardless of the form of your enemy.
Captain Seafort wrote:Then the topic we were covering was the Fifth Fleet, followed by the Yevethan War. The Imps never came into it.
Captain Seafort wrote:And that's what was needed - it was vital to avoid a bunch of nasty little shits like the Yevetha getting out into the galaxy.
Captain Seafort wrote:I was talking more about the cluster than the planet, and as much as a Base Delta Zero would have solved the problem, can you really see the New Republic doing it, any more than the UFP?
Captain Seafort wrote:Hardly. A terrorist group has very little to lose, somewhere between few and no vital points to hold, and a positive advantage in attacking soft targets that a military force would ignore as not being worthwhile.
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