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Captain Seafort wrote:Oh FFS... When did you suddenly become so thin-skinned? I've seen you go toe-to-toe with Deep at his worst without throwing your toys out of the pram like that. DITL has always been pretty free with the flames when debates get heated, be that due to outright racism, aggravating debating styles, factual inaccuracies or just differences of interpretation, and there's nothing in the above debate that is in any way unusual - we've all been involved in far worse and shrugged it off. If you're going through a rough patch personally, you have my condolences. If not, grow the fuck up (and yes, I am aware of the irony of me telling you that).

I'd be willing to bet he's more angry at the pit he dug himself vs at anyone in general. You've done the same in the past, as have I and its just his turn.

Well, I don't feel like that's the case... but if so, then at least I'm in good company.

Mikey wrote:Well, I don't feel like that's the case... but if so, then at least I'm in good company.

Yeah, you're in the company of the entire population of Earth. Welcome.

Deepcrush wrote:Yeah, you're in the company of the entire population of Earth.

I've heard mixed reviews.

90% of the population is a shit-tank. The other 10% live their lives trying to stay out of the shit.

But back to topic...

A question for those still interested. If the rebels spent so much on those smaller cannons, why not combine their costs and build just a few large cannons that would work?

Availability and not drawing attention. Getting your hands on those small cannons might not have been an issue. If they went looking for artillery with enough ass to start blowing holes in AT-ATs it might raise some eyebrows.

Good point, so would they have been better off just spending the money on buying ships rather then building a massive yet lightly defended base?

Probably. They'd get the most bang for their buck in space. The size of the RA that we see could never really hope to stand up on the ground versus an even minor Imperial attack. They'd be better off on the ground with small commando units instead of trying to fight a frontal armored assault.

Agreed, the expense of Echo Base must have been massive. Could have paid for a cruiser or two with that.

Good point about the availability, and subtlety, of getting serious bang-bang on the black market. As to planetside base vs. just buying cap ships (which should likewise raise some eyebrows, but we can assume that there are sympathizers in Corellia and Mon Calamari,) we should for the sake of argument postulate that there is a reason for building Echo Base. Obviously, the OOU reason was to make the Hoth scenes, but that doesn't help the discussion. What can be done on a planetside base that can't on a cap ship, or what other advantages would a planetside base provide?

Having a base on a planet, that you think is generally out of the way and hidden, means you can gather materials up that would normally take up space aboard a starship. Space that you may just not have available. The problem is, that their planet was just such a great out of the way spot... that even the Rebels couldn't make good use of it.

Ackbar had the right idea when he took the Rebels and went mobile. I think an IU reason is that many of the first Rebels were former soldiers. They thought and fought in a fashion of a normal war. Build a base of operations, build resources, strike at the enemy, defend against the enemy counter attack, then counter attack the enemy counter. The problem is that the Rebels just didn't have the starting resources needed to do so. The more I've read about the Rebel Alliance, the more it looked less and less like an Alliance and more like a bunch of gangs.

It always looked to me that the Rebels weren't hurting for money. What they were hurting for was a steady supply line of war materials.

Well, no base the Alliance could have ever built would have been even passably Empire-proof... so they would have needed to have been planned as temporary. Unfortunately, even a temporary base has to be a huge sink for resources and time when it has to have all the hangars, shops, ordnance stores, etc., associated with a fighter group and interstellar transports; billets, armories, staff rooms, etc., for troops; motor pool; etc., etc.

In other words, you're putting a huge chunk of a finite amount of resources into a necessarily temporary installation... one which would inevitably, sooner or later, invite Imperial attention.

What's worse is a sink hole the likes of Hoth. The expense in setting up livable conditions for the Rebels was far above acceptable. They needed to find places that didn't require such extensive costs in adapting to the environment.

If you absolutely have to set up a base, then do so on very very small scales. A couple of guys and a few freight boxes and a workshop.

Exactly - what they needed was a place that didn't require so much investment, that they could have bugged out in a heartbeat before a squadron of ISD's could camp out overhead, and wouldn't have needed a stolen reactor-fed shield system because they'd have scooted before it came into play.

Would not Dantooine have classed as a remote world like that? Unfortunate that they had to make a run for it.