Ship of the Week: Lancer-class frigate

[Tyyr]

The X-Wing series as a whole used the X-Wing/TIE Fighter series of video games as the basis for its space combat.

[Deepcrush]

@seafort. That largely depends on the angle in which the weapons can fire and the angle of attack. It could be as low as 1/3 of the ships total being just six or seven quads. Another problem which has been pointed out is that the lancer is using short ranged laser cannon. Attacking fighters can launch their warheads from long range then finsh off the damaged lancer with laser fire up close.

For my thoughts, the lancer is just money better spent on equipping SDs with twin heavy lasers for AA. While it was a good starting point, the class was no where near a completed design.

[Captain Seafort]

For my thoughts, the lancer is just money better spent on equipping SDs with twin heavy lasers for AA.

They've already got them - an ISD's LTLs are equivalent to an Acclamator's PD lasers, and they're numerous and rapid-firing enough to be effective anti fighter weapons. The Lancer's real use would be as an anti-fighter convoy escort, in which case Carracks would be the ship to go for. Strip out the ion cannon, put quad lasers in their place, and you're good to go. They're faster than Lancers, they're much stronger, and they've got the guns to take on anything their size or a bit bigger.

Of course, the key problem with the entire argument is that the Lancer's backstory is based on the assumption that fighters are a threat to Star Destroyers. Given that the most powerful fighter weapons we've seen - Slave I's 12 Gt seismic charges - are three or four orders of magnitude too weak to threaten capital-ship shields, I consider the ship's entire raison d'etre to be tenuous at best.

[Deepcrush]

Ive never seen anything that says LTLs = PDLs. Since I've always seen them posted apart and not together I'm afraid I don't trust that response.

I do however agree with just using modified Carracks.

[Captain Seafort]

Ive never seen anything that says LTLs = PDLs. Since I've always seen them posted apart and not together I'm afraid I don't trust that response.

An Accy's PD lasers are 6 Mt/shot, per the E2ICS. An ISD's LTLs are about 3.5 Mt/shot, per this.

What are your thoughts on the second paragraph, given that I assume you posted while I was editing it?

[Deepcrush]

FML, didn't see your second paragraph.

While I doubt believe that fighters are a risk to something the size of a VicStar or above while shielded. They are still open to attack at any number of other times or it could just be a smaller capship. In some of the story lines there are Sector Fleets who are built mostly of Neb-b and Dreadnaught Cruisers. If a rebel fighter wing caught some of them on patrol then it would be a problem for the local Imps.

[Deepcrush]

While SD.net has some impressive work, I dont take it as canon. Since canon sources speak of them as being different then I have to treat them as such when considering design usesge.

[Captain Seafort]

While I doubt believe that fighters are a risk to something the size of a VicStar or above while shielded. They are still open to attack at any number of other times or it could just be a smaller capship. In some of the story lines there are Sector Fleets who are built mostly of Neb-b and Dreadnaught Cruisers. If a rebel fighter wing caught some of them on patrol then it would be a problem for the local Imps.

That's my point though - the fluff for the Lancer states that they were designed to protect the heavier capital ships, a specifically refers to Star Destroyers (presumably ISDs, given the lack of a specific class reference). Given that those things' weapons can put out several petatons per second at full power, and do not one-shot each other, there is no way in hell even a wing of fighters is going to take one down.

[Captain Seafort]

While SD.net has some impressive work, I dont take it as canon. Since canon sources speak of them as being different then I have to treat them as such when considering design usesge.

The numbers are calculated directly from an event in ESB - they're no more non-canon that the fact that Home One is about 4km long. My assumption is that the difference is the weapons' operating mechanism, with the actual firepower of the largest laser cannon and the smallest turbolasers being about the same, just as the yields of the largest non-nuclear weapons are about the same as the smallest tactical nukes.

[Deepcrush]

But remains a non-cap'n guess by an outside fan based on made up numbers assuming mass v energy. To SW it's non-canon and to me is just a rough guess.

PDLs are treated apart from TLs. Now I'm not saying that a LTL couldn't turn down its power to match a HLC, or vise versa, but that doesn't make them the same weapon.

[Captain Seafort]

But remains a non-cap'n guess by an outside fan based on made up numbers assuming mass v energy.

It's based on a combination of known physical facts (conservation of angular momentum and the associated equations) and reasonable estimates of the ship's mass. Unless you have canon figures for the mass of the Falcon that can be used to refine the estimate, Mike Wong's figures stand.

PDLs are treated apart from TLs. Now I'm not saying that a LTL couldn't turn down its power to match a HLC, or vise versa, but that doesn't make them the same weapon.

I never said they were the same weapon, I said they were equivalent based on them having equal firepower.

[Deepcrush]

Wrong, MWs numbers no matter well thought out stand for nothing with when it involves canon. His point is a fan's guess using another guess on mass with another guess on power with another guess on the weapon added to you guess that he is right without any support from canon.

Much like GKs numbers here; very cute and some have at least tried to stick close to canon but that does no make them canon.

[Deepcrush]

You said they are the "equivalent" of each other. However in as we saw with the DS1, even the LTLs couldn't effectively handle fighters. PDLs on the other hand are designed directly to handle fighters.

[Captain Seafort]

You said they are the "equivalent" of each other. However in as we saw with the DS1, even the LTLs couldn't effectively handle fighters. PDLs on the other hand are designed directly to handle fighters.

Those weren't LTLs - they're as tall as an X-wing, and would be easily visible even even on something the size of an ISD. The LTLs we saw firing on the Tantive IV and the Falcon, however, were invisibly small.

[Captain Seafort]

Wrong, MWs numbers no matter well thought out stand for nothing with when it involves canon.

They're based on canon, and can therefore be used as an order-of-magnitude estimate. If you want to bin those calcs, you might as well bin everything that isn't explicitly stated, which would make this place very dull indeed.