Random Musings

Re: Random Musings

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:10 pm

Up until the NJO Luke was taking the best of the Old Jedi and the Ancient Jedi and merging them together. Then he took the idiot ball and ran with it for a touchdown of epic fucking stupidity. I mean seriously, what the fuck???? Yoda in the ROTS novel had the realization that, yes, he didn't have it. He couldn't stop the Sith. Now Luke and his Order are going down that route... :bangwall: :bangwall: :bangwall: :madashell: :madashell: :madashell: :madashell: :madashell:

I mean come... *Steps back and takes deep breaths* Sorry. I'm going to go to my happy place now.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Deepcrush » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:21 pm

The problem with fighting the Sith... is you can't win. They are as much a part of the Force as the Jedi. You can't destroy them all no matter what you do. At some point down the road new ones will pop up. Best thing to do is learn to balance the Force, rather then trying to control it.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Mark » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:35 pm

MUST Jedi and Sith continute to fight? I mean, can they not be left alone to follow their own path after all?

What is the solution to the Sith?
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Mikey » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:44 pm

Mark wrote:MUST Jedi and Sith continute to fight? I mean, can they not be left alone to follow their own path after all?


As Deep mentioned... yes. Yin is meaningless without Yang. Or, as Mel Brooks, said, "There's two sides to every Schwartz." The very heart of being a Jedi is to oppose what the Sith idealize; and the whole point of being a Sith is inimical to what the Jedi defend.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:50 pm

The Sith want to rule the Galaxy and install a regime of terror and death. the Jedi... kinda oppose that.

So, no, they really can't stop fighting.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Deepcrush » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:00 pm

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:The Sith want to rule the Galaxy and install a regime of terror and death. the Jedi... kinda oppose that.

So, no, they really can't stop fighting.


The Sith believe in Order through "might makes right". Much like the Shadows of B5 or the Dominion in DS9. If you don't oppose them then they have a policy of leaving you alone.

Mark wrote:MUST Jedi and Sith continute to fight? I mean, can they not be left alone to follow their own path after all?

What is the solution to the Sith?


Again, there really isn't much about it. You can't solve just one of them. The solution has to be for both the Jedi and the Sith. They have to come together, combine their desires for order and balance out their use of power. The Jedi are often to slow to respond, the Sith to harsh and together they would work well. Which is why I liked Luke's plans up until the NJO.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Mark » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:15 pm

I confess......I lost interest in the books just after the defeat of the Vong.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Mikey » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:11 pm

Deepcrush wrote:If you don't oppose them then they have a policy of leaving you alone.


Unless you're non-human, at least in the Palps era.

@ Mark - you're looking at this as if there should be some real-world solution, or even talking point. OOU, you have to remember that SW was never meant to be a human-interest drama, thriller, or anything of the sort; it was a "space opera," a la the old Burroughs serials. The bad guys were unambiguously bad, and the good guys were unambiguously good... they might as well have worn corresponding black or white ten-gallon hats. The point was melodrama, not drama. That's why the end of RotJ was such a denouement - if the whole story was more realistic in portraying a realistic psychological angle, Vader's return to the light wouldn't have been quite such a big deal.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Captain Seafort » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:24 pm

Mikey wrote:
Deepcrush wrote:If you don't oppose them then they have a policy of leaving you alone.


Unless you're non-human, at least in the Palps era.


The source of Imperial racism was Coruscanti High Human culture, not Palpatine. Look at his track record when it comes to his closest advisers - Maul, Mas Amedda, Thrawn. Not not mention the long history of non-human Sith both in the Bannite and pre-Bannite orders.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Mikey » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:06 pm

Mas Amedda, Thrawn... Bannite


I have no idea what any of those strange words mean.

Maul was a tool of convenience for Sidious. One doesn't deem a hammer to be one's equal in order to pound a few nails. Of course, the term itself hints at a change in that particular belief system - if my limited research is correct, I'm led to believe that "Sith" originally referred to a race of Force-sensitive aliens, and only later came to be used as a more general reference to Dark Side practitioners.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby stitch626 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:16 pm

Yes, Sith referred to the ancient Massasi culture (before they became tools of... I want to say Exar Kuun).

Of course, the Dark side was in use long before that under the Rakata Empire, whom for a long time were able to use both "sides" of the force with some balance.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:52 pm

Deepcrush wrote:
RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:The Sith want to rule the Galaxy and install a regime of terror and death. the Jedi... kinda oppose that.

So, no, they really can't stop fighting.


The Sith believe in Order through "might makes right". Much like the Shadows of B5 or the Dominion in DS9. If you don't oppose them then they have a policy of leaving you alone.


Well, Exar Kun kinda went off the deep end pretty quickly after going to the Dark Side. I'll have to relook that up. And when the Daragon siblings contacted the Sith Empire in Tales of the Jedi, Naga Sadow took control and launched an invasion of the Old Republic.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Captain Seafort » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:59 pm

stitch626 wrote:Yes, Sith referred to the ancient Massasi culture (before they became tools of... I want to say Exar Kuun).


AFAIK the original Sith species was separate to and older than the Massasi that Kun took control of.

Mikey wrote:I have no idea what any of those strange words mean.


Mas Amedda was Palpatine's Chief of Staff during his Chancellorship and into the early Imperial period - he was the guy with the horns who was usually standing just behind Palpatine, and who left the room pretty sharpish when Yoda showed up to deal with Sidious in RotS.

Grand Admiral Mitth'raw'nuruodo (Thrawn was his somewhat more pronounceable core name) was the best and most important of the Empire's twelve Grand Admirals. They were the senior commanders of the Imperial Navy, and Thrawn himself was, give or take the odd Dark Side adept, probably the fourth most important individual in the Empire, behind Grand Vizier Sate Pestage, Vader, and Palatine himself.

The Bannite Sith Order is that founded by Darth Bane, and which followed the Rule of Two.

Maul was a tool of convenience for Sidious. One doesn't deem a hammer to be one's equal in order to pound a few nails.


He was Sidious' apprentice since before Sidious killed Darth Plagieus and became the Sith Master, long before he knew Skywalker existed and probably since before the latter was even born. Tyrannus was simply a stop-gap, but Maul was trained from the start as Sidious' true apprentice and ultimately his replacement.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Mikey » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:34 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:Mas Amedda was Palpatine's Chief of Staff during his Chancellorship and into the early Imperial period - he was the guy with the horns who was usually standing just behind Palpatine, and who left the room pretty sharpish when Yoda showed up to deal with Sidious in RotS.

Grand Admiral Mitth'raw'nuruodo (Thrawn was his somewhat more pronounceable core name) was the best and most important of the Empire's twelve Grand Admirals. They were the senior commanders of the Imperial Navy, and Thrawn himself was, give or take the odd Dark Side adept, probably the fourth most important individual in the Empire, behind Grand Vizier Sate Pestage, Vader, and Palatine himself.

The Bannite Sith Order is that founded by Darth Bane, and which followed the Rule of Two.


Yresh, I need to whet my movie-listening skills. I don't remember Mas Amedda being named (though by your description I recall the figure.) I don't recall any of the brass being named save the newly-promoted Needa and of course Tarkin. I definitely don't remember anything about a Darth Bane, though I presume you're referring to the Republic/Empire-era convention of there only being two Sith at a time.
Captain Seafort wrote:He was Sidious' apprentice since before Sidious killed Darth Plagieus and became the Sith Master, long before he knew Skywalker existed and probably since before the latter was even born. Tyrannus was simply a stop-gap, but Maul was trained from the start as Sidious' true apprentice and ultimately his replacement.


No mention was made of when Maul's apprenticeship began, or when Sidious killed Plagous. (sp?) Tyrannus, according to the "Bannite" convention to which you referred above, must needs have been taken on by Sidious only after Maul's death, certainly; but I sure don't remember seeing any mention of Sidious' intentions for Maul's career.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Captain Seafort » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:48 pm

That's because none of that was in the films - it's from the novels.
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