Random Musings

Random Musings

Postby Mark » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:19 pm

I was listening to Star Wars III on audio book recently and had some random musings. If Anakin had been apprenticed to Mace Windu with his own darkness, and studied Vaapad with it's skirting control of the Dark Side, do you suppose things would have turned out differently?

Also......do you think that Palpatine truly cared for, and had feelings for Anakin, perhaps as a son? After all......isn't love forbidden to Jedi as leading to the Dark Side?

And I still ask.....what law was broken the galaxy at large knew about? The Force seems to be the state religion of the Old Republic......but is it illegal just to BE a Sith? They tried to arrest him..........what would they have charged him with, and how would they have proven it?
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Mikey » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:47 pm

#1 - What's a Vaapad? Is that like an iPad?

#2 - They were going to arrest him for supplanting the rightfu leadership of the Senate on false pretenses. However, being a Sith may not be illegal per se, but the persecution of the Sith as a present danger could still be a standing practice of the Jedi.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Deepcrush » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:02 am

Mark wrote:I was listening to Star Wars III on audio book recently and had some random musings. If Anakin had been apprenticed to Mace Windu with his own darkness, and studied Vaapad with it's skirting control of the Dark Side, do you suppose things would have turned out differently?


I'm going to say yes, very differently. First being that Anakin wouldn't have had to hide his feelings like he did under Obi-Wan. He would have been free to express, explore and learn control over them. Second, under Windu I don't think Anakin would have lacked the rigid sense of order he was so attracted to. Again this would have made him more comfortable inside the Jedi Order. Lastly, under Vaapad, Anakin would be able to express his full power in the Force while still being loyal to the Jedi. Rather then being on the ropes, he would have been more likely Windu's personal Sith hunter.

Mark wrote:Also......do you think that Palpatine truly cared for, and had feelings for Anakin, perhaps as a son? After all......isn't love forbidden to Jedi as leading to the Dark Side?


I'm going to say yes. The reaction that we get from Palpatine with regards to Vader is totally different then any of his reactions to anyone one else. Where the loss of Darth Maul was a minor set back, the lost of Count Dukoo effective trade... the simple injury of Vader stopped Palp in his tracks on Mustaffar.

Mark wrote:And I still ask.....what law was broken the galaxy at large knew about? The Force seems to be the state religion of the Old Republic......but is it illegal just to BE a Sith? They tried to arrest him..........what would they have charged him with, and how would they have proven it?


As the Sith were behind the start of the war and Palpatine was the leader of the Sith they could just charge him for starting the war.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Nickswitz » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:17 am

Deepcrush wrote:Rather then being on the ropes, he would have been more likely Windu's personal Sith hunter.


This would have been an interesting turn around.

Mikey wrote:What's a Vaapad? Is that like an iPad?


It's a saber fighting style, which essentially becomes much their way of life. Vaapad is very highly rooted in the force and gets very dark in some points, hedging close to the dark side.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Mikey » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:50 am

Which style, though? I've always seen the different lightsaber forms labelled numerically, not by name. Anakin's, though, was a product of circumstance - initially as an extension of Obi-Wan's, then by addition of his individuality and expression of ego, and finally as (cyborg) Vader as a product of his lack of mobility.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Nickswitz » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:25 am

Vaapad is two, the one that Dooku used.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Deepcrush » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:15 am

Mikey wrote:Which style, though? I've always seen the different lightsaber forms labelled numerically, not by name. Anakin's, though, was a product of circumstance - initially as an extension of Obi-Wan's, then by addition of his individuality and expression of ego, and finally as (cyborg) Vader as a product of his lack of mobility.


Vaapad is form VII, not II. Windu uses a controlled form of Dark Side energy to increase his abilities. Also a part of Form VII is Juyo which is the preferred style of the Sith. Filled with emotion and aggression. Anakin used this at Mustaffar against Obi-Wan.

Nickswitz wrote:Vaapad is two, the one that Dooku used.


Correction, Dooku used Niman (Form VI), the same as QUi-Gon.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Tsukiyumi » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:51 am

The way I understand it, form II is Makashi, which Dooku used.

Obi-Wan used Soresu (Form III)

Qui-Gon and Yoda used Ataru (Form IV)

Anakin used Form V (and IV when using two blades against Dooku in AotC)

I have no clue how canonical any of that is, but that's the way I understand it.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Mark » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:21 am

Mace and Anakin IMHO would have made a pair as like never seen before. Let's be honest. Mace Windu had beaten Palpatine....a feat that even Yoda couldn't accomplish. Had Mace struck then, without engaging in debate with Anakin, the Empire never would have existed. You have Mace, the most powerful warrior in the Order, and Anakin...the most powerful (potentially) Force user in the Order.

Indeed.....Mace's discipline (as required by Vapaad), would have served Anakin well. After all, Skywalker barely ever listened to Obi-Wan anyway. Windu would have just kept thumping him with practice sabers until he started listening.

By the way....do you suppose that Palpatine actually believed in what he was saying and doing, or just saying what everyone wanted to hear to amass power? I mean, seeing the Jedi and the Sith in I,II, and III....I cannot subscribe to the simple good vs evil of IV,V,VI. The Jedi did alot of shit that I'd call controlling and "evil", while the Sith did have some "good" motivations and seemed to care for each other.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Mikey » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:04 am

What "good" motivations or personal concern did the Sith show?
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Captain Seafort » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:08 pm

Mark wrote:By the way....do you suppose that Palpatine actually believed in what he was saying and doing, or just saying what everyone wanted to hear to amass power?


Bit of both I expect. After all, the most effective way to manipulate groups or individuals is by telling the truth. For a certain point of view, of course.

The Jedi did alot of s**t that I'd call controlling and "evil"


The certainly became rigid and dogmatic towards the end, but given the amount of damage a Dark Jedi was capable of, it's not exactly surprising, and their fundamental reasoning was sound.

the Sith did have some "good" motivations and seemed to care for each other.


Oh yeah? While Sidious certainly seemed to display some degree of personal grief upon finding Vader injured, I don't see how one fleeting moment can counter the vast amount of evidence we have of the fundamental nature of the Sith
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Re: Random Musings

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:19 pm

Sorry, but I gotta dispute Mace 'winning'. There was about a half-minute during the fight where Palps has his saber about an inch from Mace's chest, with Mace's arms spread out. If he had coughed it would've been over.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Captain Seafort » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:25 pm

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:There was about a half-minute during the fight where Palps has his saber about an inch from Mace's chest, with Mace's arms spread out. If he had coughed it would've been over.


1) It was a lot more than an inch

2) Palpatine was at full extension at the time, while Windu was well balanced. If Palpatine had lunged then Windu could have simply pivoted out of the way and taken his head off before he could recover. Indeed, that was probably what Windu was hoping he'd do, and Palpatine was too experienced and intelligent to fall for it.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby mwhittington » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:14 pm

It seemed to me that Palpatine was saving Vader's life because he needed Vader to become the Jedi hunter he turned out to be, not because he was worried about him personally. Maul was a great dualist, Dooku was the powerful Force-wielder. Vader was the best of both worlds, and Palpatine groomed him from youth to be his apprentice. Even with him being half machine, Vader's strength in the Force was far more powerful than that of Palpatine's past apprentices.
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Re: Random Musings

Postby Deepcrush » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:06 pm

Tsukiyumi wrote:I have no clue how canonical any of that is, but that's the way I understand it.


Hard to say sometimes. The Jedi often had preferred styles but that didn't require them to use only that single style. Windu developed Form VII only after he was a respected master of the others.

Dooku switched styles rather freely during his three fights. So that means its unlikely he prefers Form II vs Form VI.
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