T.I.E bomber dogfighting

[Captain Seafort]

I could understand this. But still, its just so much of a reach. Truth is that sometimes you have to lose ground to gain ground. Give up a few sectors and mass your elite ships for a strike at your enemy. Then, with his fleet out of the way you're clear to retake your losses.

All well and good militarily, but imagine the shrieking from those sectors being abandoned to concentrate your forces. The New Republic government in many ways resembles that of the US, except that instead of contracts, their pork is keeping their system or sector well defended. This leaves the fleet overstretched and vulnerable to even a slight concentration by enemy forces, especially against someone like Thrawn.

True, if someone brought two hundred Mandators to a battle. Its going to get nasty. But these ships weren't such. They were 600m ships with about the same firepower as a VSD. One MC90 would eat up several of them before, well, just leaving for a break I guess.

Again, I agree with the gist, but not the specifics. Firstly, I'd be surprised if a Dread could go one-on-one with a Vic - they're a lot smaller, and the Vic has the same 100% forward fire arc as the ISD. Secondly, while an MC90 is handily superior to a Dread, I doubt they're as good as you suggest. An MC90 is roughly equivalent to an ISD, albeit with definite advantages. An ISD was pinned down by three Dreadnoughts in DFR (albeit just barely) and ran away from the prospect of taking on five. An MC90 could probably handle three or four, but more than that would be pushing it, and it wouldn't being eating them up by any stretch.

[Captain Seafort]

Oh, I agree. Unfortunately they were specified as being Dreadnaught class. So we're still stuck with that.

I know - I was thinking in terms of what should have been, rather than trying to jump through hoops redefine what is into something more palatable.

[Deepcrush]

Oh, I agree. Unfortunately they were specified as being Dreadnaught class. So we're still stuck with that.

Dreadnaught isn't a bracket though, just the class name. Same as Nimitz or Wasp. Its bracket at the time was Heavy Cruiser as stated in its name.

All well and good militarily, but imagine the shrieking from those sectors being abandoned to concentrate your forces. The New Republic government in many ways resembles that of the US, except that instead of contracts, their pork is keeping their system or sector well defended. This leaves the fleet overstretched and vulnerable to even a slight concentration by enemy forces, especially against someone like Thrawn.

I understand the crying game civis like to play. However, in war you sometimes have to just deal with it. Back out and land your punch, then attack again and drive the enemy back. People will be upset but by the time they really understand what is going on. The matter is over and you're back covering their asses again.

Again, I agree with the gist, but not the specifics. Firstly, I'd be surprised if a Dread could go one-on-one with a Vic - they're a lot smaller, and the Vic has the same 100% forward fire arc as the ISD. Secondly, while an MC90 is handily superior to a Dread, I doubt they're as good as you suggest. An MC90 is roughly equivalent to an ISD, albeit with definite advantages. An ISD was pinned down by three Dreadnoughts in DFR (albeit just barely) and ran away from the prospect of taking on five. An MC90 could probably handle three or four, but more than that would be pushing it, and it wouldn't being eating them up by any stretch.

I think you mixed up the MC80 and the MC90. Though, taken to account against the MC80. I agree they are about equal. However, I disagree that one MC80 would perform so well. The advantage the MC80 has is her shields. But she lacks the guns needed to go against multiple Dread-HCs. If they attacked in a formation. The MC80 wouldn't have the firepower to take them all on with a single arc.

[Captain Seafort]

I understand the crying game civis like to play. However, in war you sometimes have to just deal with it. Back out and land your punch, then attack again and drive the enemy back. People will be upset but by the time they really understand what is going on. The matter is over and you're back covering their asses again.

As I said, all well and good militarily, but given the tight political control over the military evident in the NR (culminating in the fiasco that was the Vong War Battle of Coruscant) that's not going to happen.

I think you mixed up the MC80 and the MC90. Though, taken to account against the MC80. I agree they are about equal. However, I disagree that one MC80 would perform so well. The advantage the MC80 has is her shields. But she lacks the guns needed to go against multiple Dread-HCs. If they attacked in a formation. The MC80 wouldn't have the firepower to take them all on with a single arc.

I'm talking about the MC90. It's smaller than an ISD and was designed to be built in civilian shipyards. Despite that it's still the superior ship, but not so much as to be able to curbstomp an ISD - I'd reckon the odds, head-to-head, would be about 60-40 in favour of the MC90, but no more. If we were talking about an MC80 I'd doubt its ability to survive against three well-handled Dreads, although with a good CO against an average opponent it would have a chance.

[Deepcrush]

As I said, all well and good militarily, but given the tight political control over the military evident in the NR (culminating in the fiasco that was the Vong War Battle of Coruscant) that's not going to happen.

All the more to why I don't like the NR.

I'm talking about the MC90. It's smaller than an ISD and was designed to be built in civilian shipyards. Despite that it's still the superior ship, but not so much as to be able to curbstomp an ISD - I'd reckon the odds, head-to-head, would be about 60-40 in favour of the MC90, but no more.

One MC90, the Mon Ramada, took out three ISDs and four support ships on her own before they took her down.

Taking that she was the one of the first of her line and the basis for the MC90s. We'll have to agree to disagree on the odds of a MC90 taking on a ISD head to head and winning. Forty eight heavy guns, twelve per quarter... Even if an ISD has its best arc against the MC90, the MC90 still has a 3/2 fire ratio. Since the MC90s can angle as many as half their guns on a single target. An ISD is just a fireball in the waiting.

Though as I said. That's just my view to the matter.

[Captain Seafort]

I think you're giving too much weight to numbers of guns rather than the power behind them. Forty-odd guns suggests that they're individually quite weak, and a dozen might not be able to channel the reactor's full power. An ISD's eight guns (or 16 or 64 depending on how you count) obviously can channel it's full power.

Regarding the MR, were details given about how she took down those ships? Sequentially, with a good crew against average Imps, I can see it happening. I also recall the EGtVV mentioning only a single ISD.

[Deepcrush]

I think you're giving too much weight to numbers of guns rather than the power behind them. Forty-odd guns suggests that they're individually quite weak, and a dozen might not be able to channel the reactor's full power. An ISD's eight guns (or 16 or 64 depending on how you count) obviously can channel it's full power.

Since MonCal cannon were the equal to the Imp counter part. Its safe to say that each could channel an equal amount of power. Also come to mind is that the MC90s weren't really mentioned to have ANY lighter weapons until much later. This could have been a late coming upgrade. The 48 cannon of the MR were said to be heavy cannon. IIRC there was even a line about the heavy guns of the MR vs an ISD and how the MR had more. Though you can take that how you will as I don't have the book and its been several years since I read it.

Regarding the MR, were details given about how she took down those ships? Sequentially, with a good crew against average Imps, I can see it happening. I also recall the EGtVV mentioning only a single ISD.

IIRC, the first ISD was alone. However, the other ships attacked in formation. Five ISDs with support ships of unknown numbers. So the support ships could have been tankers for all I know. Either way, 6 v 1 and the MR still took three ISDs with her.