What may be in Trek XII? (potential spoilers!)

[Mikey]

I just never really "got" Nero. I mean, I understand why he's pissed, and I suppose he could have had a precarious-enough personality to develop into what we saw. But I never got any explanation of how a tramp miner managed to acquire the resources and the governmental carte blanche to accomplish what he did.

[Sonic Glitch]

Well, there was no government to stop him from going rogue...

[Captain Seafort]

Any villian, ANY, would be better than Nero.

Even with the (lack of) explanation we got, rather than all the behind the scenes stuff which would have made him great, Nero was far from the worst Trek villain - he was certainly better than Shinzon and Sybok.

[Jim]

Any villian, ANY, would be better than Nero.

Even with the (lack of) explanation we got, rather than all the behind the scenes stuff which would have made him great, Nero was far from the worst Trek villain - he was certainly better than Shinzon and Sybok.

I disagree because at least there was some sort of logic behind their motives... even if the story line (Sybok) was worse.

[Sonic Glitch]

See, I dispute the idea that the lack of logic behind is motives makes Nero a bad villain. Indeed I think that was kind of the point. We keep expecting/meeting rational villains (or supposedly rational -- again regarding Shinzon and Sybok your mileage may vary), but by the time we meet Nero, he isn't rational. That's (I think) part of the reason he can switch from [brutally murders starfleet captain] to "Hi Christopher, I'm Nero" to [tortures a starfleet captain for information]. He's not going to behave in a logical or rational manner because he's had 20 years to dwell on the death of his wife and most of his species (implied by the film/flashbacks). That kinda experience could drive a man loopy...

[Captain Seafort]

I disagree because at least there was some sort of logic behind their motives

Shinzon? Logic? You're obviously thinking of a different Shinzon, because that description bears no relation to the one from Nemesis.

[Graham Kennedy]

See, I dispute the idea that the lack of logic behind is motives makes Nero a bad villain. Indeed I think that was kind of the point. We keep expecting/meeting rational villains (or supposedly rational -- again regarding Shinzon and Sybok your mileage may vary), but by the time we meet Nero, he isn't rational. That's (I think) part of the reason he can switch from [brutally murders starfleet captain] to "Hi Christopher, I'm Nero" to [tortures a starfleet captain for information]. He's not going to behave in a logical or rational manner because he's had 20 years to dwell on the death of his wife and most of his species (implied by the film/flashbacks). That kinda experience could drive a man loopy...

Yep, that's what I liked. Nero is the post office worker who comes in one day and shoots the place up because his wife left him. He's nuts, and he's lashing out at the Federation because he can't do anything about the actual cause of his troubles.

[Mikey]

To me, as I said, the logic or lack thereof involved in his motivation isn't the problem I have with Nero.

Well, there was no government to stop him from going rogue...

What are you talking about? Nero was a Romulan, and in the absence of any evidence to the contrary was a Romulan citizen. Do you know of any government - in real life or sci-fi - that would let one of its citizens wander around committing acts of genocide and potentially dragging the whole nation into war?

[Captain Picard's Hair]

To me, as I said, the logic or lack thereof involved in his motivation isn't the problem I have with Nero.

Well, there was no government to stop him from going rogue...

What are you talking about? Nero was a Romulan, and in the absence of any evidence to the contrary was a Romulan citizen. Do you know of any government - in real life or sci-fi - that would let one of its citizens wander around committing acts of genocide and potentially dragging the whole nation into war?

The way I understood things, in his original (future) time he was in just the right place that the Romulan military wasn't in position to stop him, while in the past... nobody could stop his ship since it's weapons were over a hundred years more advanced.

[Mikey]

I guess I was absent that day. In any event, he was one guy with one ship and one crew - the contemporary Romulan state should have been able to check him up pretty damned quick, no matter the state of the government.

[Captain Picard's Hair]

Eh, well that's the only way I can explain it, that Nero must have fallen through the cracks before he got through the wormhole. After that, he was a juggernaut.

[Sonic Glitch]

I guess I was absent that day. In any event, he was one guy with one ship and one crew - the contemporary Romulan state should have been able to check him up pretty damned quick, no matter the state of the government.

For some reason, I inferred from Spocks recap of the future and some of Neros own statements that (for whatever reason. ) somehow most or all of the Romulan Empire was destroyed by this supernova. Does it make sense? Not at all. But that seemed to be what the script implied. Also, it seems Nero's actions in the future (present ... whatever) take place pretty close to the destruction of Romulus, perhaps right after. If I had to guess I'd say the military likely had other things on their mind -- like maintaining order in an Empire that just lost its capitol -- than worrying about a harmless mining ship.

[Graham Kennedy]

They often act like destroying the "hero" world will destroy the whole society - everyone acts like the Federation will instantly collapse into chaos if Earth is lost, and the Praxis thing was said to have left the Klingon Empire with "fifty years of life left to it". Just one of those odd little conventions of the show.

[Mikey]

Seems that way. It's just that when we think of governments, even one that's currently undergoing a junta will still be able to field a cop to arrest a criminal.

[Captain Seafort]

They often act like destroying the "hero" world will destroy the whole society - everyone acts like the Federation will instantly collapse into chaos if Earth is lost, and the Praxis thing was said to have left the Klingon Empire with "fifty years of life left to it". Just one of those odd little conventions of the show.

I simply see it as evidence of highly centralised governance. To give a modern example, if you set off a W88 on Blackfriars bridge you'd probably have a similar effect on the UK - with both Whitehall and the City gone, how well do you think either the economy or the country as a whole would cope?