Khan!

Discussion of the new run of Star Trek XI+ movies and any spinoffs

Khan!

Postby Atekimogus » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:31 pm

Uughh........I hope this turns out to be untrue but it seems Khan is going to be the Star Trek 2 (or 12) main villain.

Imho - if true - that would be the worst case scenerio, I really was hoping for something NEW this time. I am so tired of Star Trek films trying to copy themselve, ever since First Contact they only go for "like Wrath of Khan" and it NEVER works.

Honestly, JJ. Abrahms did a good job on the reboot, but I do feel they better had someone else write and develop the sequel. Obviously he is way to busy with other stuff and it seems they cobbled together a script at the last minute.




It seems that Abrams may have been referring to Del Toro's involvement as untrue, not the inclusion of Khan—because Vulture backs up the original Latino Review report that, yes, Khan is the villain of "Star Trek 2." Developing, as they say.


http://www.imdb.com/news/ni19168210/
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Re: Khan!

Postby Captain Seafort » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:44 pm

Atekimogus wrote:Imho - if true - that would be the worst case scenerio, I really was hoping for something NEW this time. I am so tired of Star Trek films trying to copy themselve, ever since First Contact they only go for "like Wrath of Khan" and it NEVER works.


I wouldn't go that far. FC worked for the same reason Khan worked - it developed naturally from themes established in the series. The reason the other wannabe-TWoKs (Nemesis in particular) failed was because they tried to create the same sort of animosity from scratch.
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Re: Khan!

Postby stitch626 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:42 pm

Yeah. FC worked because we knew why Picard hated the Borg.

And even someone who never watched a bit of Trek in his life, from the opening bit could understand the hate Picard had.
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Re: Khan!

Postby Atekimogus » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:05 pm

True, FC worked.


Still, I'd rather see something new and creative instead of a remake. If they use Khan again they have, as I see it, two choices.

First they make a remake or reimagining of the Khan storyline, quite similar to all the other recent and coming remakes. (Like the coming Spiderman remakes for example...oh oh....he gets bitten by a radioctive spider and his uncle still dies BUT NOW it is so much more dark knight spiderman than before.....can't wait :roll: ).
Or second, they use the Khan character but create a completely different and creative story around him, which then begs the question why use the Khan character in the first place........

Honestly, I'd rather have they don't use any of the established TOS characters (Khan, Mudd etc.) other than as for short cameos and come up with something new for a change.
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Re: Khan!

Postby Mikey » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:36 pm

My biggest issue with a re-use of Khan isn't so much that it might be practically impossible to recreate the writing for the character - it's that it will be practically impossible to replicate Montalban's performance.
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Re: Khan!

Postby Captain Seafort » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:49 pm

Practically?
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Re: Khan!

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:59 pm

Mikey wrote:My biggest issue with a re-use of Khan isn't so much that it might be practically impossible to recreate the writing for the character - it's that it will be practically impossible to replicate Montalban's performance.


... I don't know. We thought none of the actors from the reboot would work, and to paraphrase tv tropes it seemed DeForest had come back to life to possess the new guy.
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Re: Khan!

Postby Graham Kennedy » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:13 pm

^^^ This.

When I heard they were (essentially) remaking TOS, I thought it didn't have a hope in hell. Another actor play Kirk, Bones, Spock? No way in hell could anybody pull that off. In the end I just took a wait and see attitude, curious to see what they came up with.

And my but did they pull it off. Most of the complaints you hear about XI are related to plot holes or the bad guy - even the films critics generally say the actors pulled off their roles superbly.

Maybe this will be good, maybe it won't, but right now I have no reason to think they won't do something good. I'm certainly not going to spend the next year bitching about how they can't possibly make a good movie just because one of the characters is called Khan.
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Re: Khan!

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:10 am

Thanks, Graham. :) I'm gonna hope for the best, too. I loved the 2009 movie and look forward to the sequel.
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Re: Khan!

Postby Mikey » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:52 am

Captain Seafort wrote:Practically?


I meant "practically" as in "in practice," not as in "almost."

That said, I do understand GK's and Striker's point... I just feel that Montalban injected such a unique and personal touch into the role; of course everyone did, but Khan had become so iconic beyond the actual place of the character in the milieu.
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Re: Khan!

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:26 pm

Oh, he [i]was/i] awesome. One TOS episode and TWOK and he won best villain poll, for which he rightfully deserves. But... it's still possible to find someone to, not replace, but recast for Khan.
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Re: Khan!

Postby Tyyr » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:27 pm

Ugh, why?
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Re: Khan!

Postby Atekimogus » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:15 am

I don't doubt that Khan can be replaced by another actor giving a great performance. I mean it's not like the original one got an oscar or anything.

It's just that with the recent influx of remakes it seems they just don't have it in them anymore to come up with a marginally original concept and the reuse of a well known villain seems to be a sign that they are not trying very hard and take the easy road.

Ok, the movie can still be great and entertaining in the same way the 100th Robin Hood movie still can be entertaining. I'd rather have something new though.
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Re: Khan!

Postby Tyyr » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:38 pm

I mean it's not like the original one got an oscar or anything.

Oscars don't mean shit. Not that he ever cold have gotten an Oscar anyways. It's only in the last few years that anyone will consider a scifi movie for anything but an award in special effects.

Ok, the movie can still be great and entertaining in the same way the 100th Robin Hood movie still can be entertaining. I'd rather have something new though.

This, I'd rather have Hollywood prove they still have an original idea in the tank somewhere than redo a movie that's already been done before, and done as perfectly as I can imagine it to have been done to boot.
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Re: Khan!

Postby kostmayer » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:07 pm

Khan could well prove to be a great villain in the new movie, but he'll never have the relationship with Kirk that the original did, which IMO is what made the orginal Khan so great. That being the case, why bother naming him Khan?

Unless they're planning a loose remake of Space Seed, with the Enterprise finding Khan in Cryogenic freeze. That might make an interesting tale.
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