Appartently still looking for a bad guy

[Atekimogus]

I am probably alone in this, but I guess I would once again enjoy a movie with no clear cut villain, something along the lines of TMP or STIV. Sure, have some adversary or opponent running interference but since this is not James Bond just make a movie without a drooling villain with the label "evil" on his forehead.

Let them explore the galaxy, have some problem to solve with a small "villain" threatening to escalate a situation or providing an obstacle to overcome but nothing as black and white as AGAIN some guy wanting to destroy X (fill in for X, planet, universe, enterprise) just for the sake of it.

So no Khan, Shinzon, Chang, Borg, Ruafo type villain, more of a Kruge type if you absolutely most have one. Just a guy from the opposing side doing his job.

[Reliant121]

I doubt it will happen until the new movie series has a solid and strong basis.

[Sionnach Glic]

Indeed. Direct conflict between a protagonist and antagonist is a safe formula. They won't deviate from that until they're sure that a large audience will buy tickets without that as a hook.

ST:TMP took a major risk in that respect. They went from a fun, not always serious show about exploring strange new worlds, getting into fights and sleeping with hot alien chicks to a slower and more thoughtful movie that lacked pretty much all those features. That sort of major shift would never fly with movie studios these days. Trek will remain "Kirk and co fight off villain X" for another couple of movies at least.

Hell, even the TNG movies were all of the "Picard and co fight off villain X" type, even though TNG is probably one of the few sci-fi series around that could make money while taking a TMP-esque aproach.

[Atekimogus]

Hell, even the TNG movies were all of the "Picard and co fight off villain X" type, even though TNG is probably one of the few sci-fi series around that could make money while taking a TMP-esque aproach.

Yea...thats why the TNG movies never worked for me. I admit I really liked First Contact because, altough Rambo-Picard was out of character, the borg and the history he had with them made the film work. All the other ones....not so much.

Maybe there isn't enough creativity left in hollywood to make a movie without a clear cut villain interesting but on the other hand.......who was the last really good star trek villain in a movie?

The be honest you probably need to go as far back as The Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock and possibly The undiscovered country to find a really great villain. And even Kruge and Chang I would not necessarily rate as top villains.

So imho they should once more concentrate more on the crew and their interactions and less on finding the next uber-menacing, uber-evil and utterly uber-forgettable next top movie-villain.

[Tsukiyumi]

Maybe an "alien entity" plot would satisfy both the need for an antagonist and the desire of fans for a more thoughtful story; something like Silicon Avatar where the sapient entity(s) is/are destructive, but not necessarily adversarial. Kirk and co try to find a solution to the problem while evading the entity(s) themselves and trying to keep it/them from killing civilians. Will they end up being forced to try and destroy it/them to save lives?

So, you have a problem to be solved, an obvious antagonistic force (without having a "villain"), and a moral dilemma. I think it could work.

[Mikey]

Rambo-Picard was out of character

I'm not so sure. While it was definitely a step away from the Picard we've all come to know, there was the foreshadowing of Action Picard from TNG: "Starship Mine." Further, you answer your own question:

the borg and the history he had with them

I think the fact that Picard is driven to a state to which he normally wouldn't go, because of his personal history, humanizes him and makes the film that much more poignant (if it can be called poignant amidst all the pew-pew.)

So imho they should once more concentrate more on the crew and their interactions and less on finding the next uber-menacing, uber-evil and utterly uber-forgettable next top movie-villain.

You are absolutely correct, if the goal was to make a film which pleases established Trekkers. You and I would like that. For good or ill, though, the goal seems to be to attract (and hopefully keep) new audiences - which by definition won't have an established interest in the Kirk-Spock-McCoy love triangle, et. al.

[Atekimogus]

You are absolutely correct, if the goal was to make a film which pleases established Trekkers. You and I would like that. For good or ill, though, the goal seems to be to attract (and hopefully keep) new audiences - which by definition won't have an established interest in the Kirk-Spock-McCoy love triangle, et. al.

Well I do hope that people are not that shallow that they only would watch star trek if they are treated with a michael bay action fest. But in case I am wrong and they absolutely need a clear cut advesary to overcome I just hope he or she is not as over the top (read ridicolous) as the likes of Shinzon, just being evil for evils sake.

As for attracting new audiences...isn't the current situation roughly similar to the 80s? With Star Trek canceled and only the movies keeping it alive? How long did it take for TNG to arrive, three or four movies?

[Mikey]

Well I do hope that people are not that shallow that they only would watch star trek if they are treated with a michael bay action fest.

I hope that you're right, but I fear that you're wrong. Bear in mind that if it's "just" a character drama involving the TOS crew, being brilliant won't be enough to overcome the "just Star Trek" stigma to attract new audiences.

As to the situation in 1979... believe it or not, I wasn't old enough to really appreciate the state of the media market. I remember being aware of Star Trek, and seeing a huge ad campaign on the backs of comic books. Remember it was only two years after a completely sea-change - a total universal upheaveal, really - in the way sci-fi moviedom was presented and accepted.

[Tyyr]

The problem is that in order to make money, which is the point of making a movie, you can't just fill seats in your FX laden sci-fi extravaganza with Trekkies or fans of good deep drama. You need legions of people who's only real desire in a movie is to watch something explode big.

[Victory is Life]

I think that this is a great chance to reinvent the Borg, with all of the malevolent mysterious terror that they brought in TNG, but with a grander scale, akin to First Contact, sans the Queen and that Voyager foolishness. THAT, IMHO, would be a HUGE box office draw. and would be a story I would want told on the silver screen. Maybe KIRK or Spock could even become Locutus. Damn, I would pay to see that movie...

Imagine the space battles alone....

[Sonic Glitch]

New rumors. Not Khan, but a villain established in TOS, "Think along the lines of Harry Mudd or Trelane or Gary Mitchell or the Talosians or the Horta. Actually it's one of those that I named." HOWEVER it is still just a rumor. Link

[Reliant121]

Of those listed, I'd Love it to be the Horta. But I can just as easily imagine it being something like Mitchell.

[thelordharry]

Something new I hope. Seriously, surely it's not possible that every good Trek story has been done already and all that's left is recycling old ones? Mind you, music and movies (remakes) seem to be that way these days so why not Trek?

[SomosFuga]

I think that this is a great chance to reinvent the Borg, with all of the malevolent mysterious terror that they brought in TNG, but with a grander scale, akin to First Contact, sans the Queen and that Voyager foolishness. THAT, IMHO, would be a HUGE box office draw. and would be a story I would want told on the silver screen. Maybe KIRK or Spock could even become Locutus. Damn, I would pay to see that movie...

Imagine the space battles alone....

I would love to see the borg but to reinvent them would be quite difficult, i mean, they are the borg, single minded with only one purpuse in life, even the ships are hard to reinvent.

[Atekimogus]

New rumors. Not Khan, but a villain established in TOS, "Think along the lines of Harry Mudd or Trelane or Gary Mitchell or the Talosians or the Horta. Actually it's one of those that I named." HOWEVER it is still just a rumor. Link

I think we can rule out the Horta. Altough nice since it is a non-humanoid lifeform the have next to no story potential. Everyone know that they are basically one step from extinction, not really bad (one mind meld away from being completely peaceful) and when everything is said and done they are only a rather low-level threat to some miners. To fill a 90 minutes movie they would need to change dramatically but then why call them Horta?

Gary Mitchell and Trelane are actually more or less the same guy, a being with godlike powers....I am not sure I would enjoy either of those. Gary Mitchell was more or less a bottle show, you would need an extremly interesting b-plot to make that work imho and I am not sure a Trelane character would work nowadays.

Talosians.....on one hand they sure would make great villains but on the other hand....it is basically the same problem as with the Horta. What story can you tell about them, we don't really know already? Other than them being psychic and wanting to have some humans for their zoo they are actually not that interesting. But being potentially spacefaring, also on the brink of extinction like vulcans there is at least some story potential.

As to Harry Mudd, he would be my favourite "villain". First, mainly because he is not a villain but rather a self serving, rogueish individual not that different from your average ferengi and I could very well imagine the next movie being about correcting something he did out of shear greed and stupidity. Ah, and he also is a great comic relief:). After galaxy destroying supernovas, and planet-sucking black holes we deserve a few laughs imho.