Star Trek Review

[BigJKU316]

On the contrary - despite the Klingon intervention, Dukat won the battle. Sisko's objective was to reach DS9, destroy teh array that was dismantling the minefield, and thereby prevent Dominion reinforcements coming through the wormhole. Dukat's objective was to prevent this from happening. Sisko failed and Dukat succeeded. The fact that the Prophets pulled a deus ex machina on the Dominion fleet in the wormhole does not change this.

While this is in part true he also had his fleet crushed to no good purpose. He could have very well acheived the same result by aggresively engaging the Federation forces when he met them. Beyond that in that respect the whole battle plan on both sides makes little sense. If he only wanted to stop them them then he could have pulled back a few times and made Sisko start all over again. And if the only Federation goal was to get to the wormhole then why would the Klingons go to the battle, rather than straight to DS9? I have never really been clear on who was trying to accomplish what here. The tactics of both sides have always puzzled me here.

That battle is fought almost like there is no other way around for Starfleet forces, which does not make much sense.

That tactic runs the risk of enough ships getting clear of the main action to reach DS9 in time to take out the anti-mine system, which would result in a Dominion defeat. Battles are not solely about who destroys most ships, but about who achieves their objectives.

Again this is another ambiguity I never quite figured out. If the Federation objective was only to get to DS9 and destroy the anti-mine system regardless of loss then why fight the battle at all? Space is 3 dimensional and some of those Federation ships were faster than the ships the Dominion had on hand, at least based on this sites numbers. I don't get what stopped them from simply going around, or under or over the Dominion forces and continuing straight on to DS9. So I presume they wanted to fight the engagement.

Dukat's strategy was sound - draw the Feds in by feigning a break in his formation, while massing forces to crush them when they moved to take advantage of that break. It gave him the opportunity to inflict a tactical defeat while continuing to stand on the defensive, and not overcommit forces that may have been needed to cut off any Fed ships that attempted to avoid the main battle and make for DS9. It also worked - the Defiant was the only ship to break through, even with the Klingons' intervention, and she arrived too late to achieve Sisko's objective.

I agree that makes sense but I still don't see why the main battle was fought there anyway to begin with other than the commanders wished to bring on a major fleet engagement. If we simply accept that an engagement must be offered there seems no reason that he could not have aggressively manuvered against the Federation with half or more of his forces and still retained a large margin to respond to any other incursions.

There is no reason not to make a real attempt to win the battle at hand as then you most assuredly acheive your goal of securing passage from the wormhole for the remainder of your fleet. If you are worried about an end run it would make the most sense to have left 25% or so of your force at DS9 itself and then used the rest to actively engage the enemy, rather than take the whole force with you and not really utilize it.

[Tyyr]

All your issues can be summed up simply.

The writers don't know how to handle that kind of combat.

[SolkaTruesilver]

All your issues can be summed up simply.

The writers don't know how to handle that kind of combat.

True. But we must do with what we have. The Valley of Death battle (do we have any official name for that battle?) was still one of the best in DS9 history.

I mean, that was a lot, lot, LOT of shit blowing up.

[Tyyr]

If that's your only qualification then yes, it was great. If you want it to make sense, not so much.

[Deepcrush]

Being Trek, I think we should be thankful that tactics of any kind were not only mentioned but attempted.

[BigJKU316]

Being Trek, I think we should be thankful that tactics of any kind were not only mentioned but attempted.

Probably more true than we would care to admit. Though I am still baffled as to why you would take a huge fleet and leave yourself no reserves at the known target if you did not intend to really make a go at just wiping them out. If you were just playing for time the smart play seems to me to be to leave 25-35% of your forces back at DS9 as a backstop.

[Deepcrush]

The smart play would have been a few small skirmishing forces to stretch out the Federation fleet and then have the bulk of the Dominion forces in the Bajoran System.

[Captain Seafort]

While this is in part true he also had his fleet crushed to no good purpose. He could have very well acheived the same result by aggresively engaging the Federation forces when he met them.

Which could have led to Fed ships breaking through - something a lot less likely if you maintain a solid front.

If he only wanted to stop them them then he could have pulled back a few times and made Sisko start all over again.

He didn't need even to do that - he could have just sat there, and the Feds would have had no counter. It was only Dukat's ego that forced him to attack at all.

And if the only Federation goal was to get to the wormhole then why would the Klingons go to the battle, rather than straight to DS9?

Because Martok and Worf were behaving like typical TNG-era Klingons - dive in to any battle going, regardless of whether it's a good idea or not.

That battle is fought almost like there is no other way around for Starfleet forces, which does not make much sense.

Why? The Dominion could simply move their fleet to continue blocking them.

Space is 3 dimensional and some of those Federation ships were faster than the ships the Dominion had on hand, at least based on this sites numbers.

All the Dominion and Cardassian speeds given by DITL are in white, and therefore purely the product of Graham's imagination, not canon

If we simply accept that an engagement must be offered there seems no reason that he could not have aggressively manuvered against the Federation with half or more of his forces and still retained a large margin to respond to any other incursions.

Why do that when you can draw the Feds in while maintaining a defensive posture? Make them try and force their way through - they'll end up surrounded by your forces, and you don't have to risk them getting past in the inevitable confusion, however limited and temporary of breaking formation to attack.

There is no reason not to make a real attempt to win the battle at hand as then you most assuredly acheive your goal of securing passage from the wormhole for the remainder of your fleet.

On the contrary - there is every reason to sit there doing nothing until the fleet came through.

If you are worried about an end run it would make the most sense to have left 25% or so of your force at DS9 itself and then used the rest to actively engage the enemy, rather than take the whole force with you and not really utilize it.

Dukat didn't know how strong Sisko's fleet would be, and splitting your forces is a cardinal sin of strategy.