Windows?

Discussion of the new run of Star Trek XI+ movies and any spinoffs

Re: Windows?

Postby stitch626 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:07 am

McAvoy wrote:We haven't even seen welds on the side of the ship at all.

We did however see them welding in the trailer for XI.
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Re: Windows?

Postby LaughingCheese » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:11 am

I gather it would look something like this?

Image


Also, could paint, especially the aztec patterning, cover up welding marks?

Not related but pretty cool (it came up when I searched for "hull welds"):

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Re: Windows?

Postby Atekimogus » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:37 pm

LaughingCheese wrote:I gather it would look something like this?
Also, could paint, especially the aztec patterning, cover up welding marks?


So - inuniverse - the aztec pattern is just paint? I always assumed they "are" sort of the welding marks, you know just slightly differntley coloured panels shining a bit through the paintjob (if there even is one).

Why would they paint that pattern in the first place?
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Re: Windows?

Postby IanKennedy » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:06 pm

In universe the panels are exactly that, they're panels. They can be removed and replaced pretty simply. We see this is Enterprise when there's a magnetic mine attached to the hull and they remove a panel to detach it, and another to provide a blast shield. Another more recent (chronologically based on the in universe timeline) view of that is in TMP when there is an open panel on the E-nil. The panel closes on a set of hinges and the ship departs with no further work being performed. In fact the image shown above in LaughingCheese's post shows exactly this plate. His image isn't canon mind you as it's a 'home grown' picture, however, it does depict something that actually happened.

Thinking that through then you get the conclusion that the ships strength is not related to the panels but to the sub-frame underneath them. That makes them much more comparable to a modern day car than to a modern day ship. The strength on a car comes from it's chassis and other framing parts and not the body panels. Using that model the windows are just another component attached the frame, just like every other body panel.

Like this:
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Re: Windows?

Postby IanKennedy » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:17 pm

In this picture you can see the open panel I was describing, it is located on the underside of the saucer at the leading edge and about as far right as the width of the primary hull. A second panel is also located to the left side of the saucer, closer to the centre line and slightly further back. Both are highlighted by spotlights.

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Re: Windows?

Postby IanKennedy » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:31 pm

Here is another interesting picture from drexfiles (Doug Drexlers website). It's an image created by him for use in Enterprise for the construction of the NX-02. Here's his page about it. It clearly demonstrates the frame and panel construction method I've outlined.

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Re: Windows?

Postby LaughingCheese » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:30 pm

Atekimogus wrote:
LaughingCheese wrote:I gather it would look something like this?
Also, could paint, especially the aztec patterning, cover up welding marks?


So - inuniverse - the aztec pattern is just paint? I always assumed they "are" sort of the welding marks, you know just slightly differntley coloured panels shining a bit through the paintjob (if there even is one).

Why would they paint that pattern in the first place?



My bad, made a statement and didn't even realize it, but yeah I had always assumed it was just paint.

They are probably panels though. Fed starships are pretty modular and this is a great way to keep modularity but maintain the sleek, seamless look.
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Re: Windows?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:38 pm

I suspect those panels on the TMP shots are covers for airlocks or loading ports of some sort - I can't believe every panel on the surface is mounted on some sort of hinge that lets it open up.

But in general yes, it's always been depicted that Starships are built as some kind of cage of structural girders with the hull attached to them as a series of plates. Even the Abrams Enterprise is like that - look at the ship under construction and you can see that the hull is in plates attached to an underlying cage structure.
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Re: Windows?

Postby IanKennedy » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:47 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:I suspect those panels on the TMP shots are covers for airlocks or loading ports of some sort - I can't believe every panel on the surface is mounted on some sort of hinge that lets it open up.

But in general yes, it's always been depicted that Starships are built as some kind of cage of structural girders with the hull attached to them as a series of plates. Even the Abrams Enterprise is like that - look at the ship under construction and you can see that the hull is in plates attached to an underlying cage structure.

I'm not suggesting that all are hinged, but there's at least two of them. I suspect it's only for something that requires occasional maintenance. It's clear from Enterprise (Archer et al) that panels can be removed in a fairly short time. (ref Minefield)
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Re: Windows?

Postby LaughingCheese » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:44 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:I suspect those panels on the TMP shots are covers for airlocks or loading ports of some sort - I can't believe every panel on the surface is mounted on some sort of hinge that lets it open up.

But in general yes, it's always been depicted that Starships are built as some kind of cage of structural girders with the hull attached to them as a series of plates. Even the Abrams Enterprise is like that - look at the ship under construction and you can see that the hull is in plates attached to an underlying cage structure.



Also, if the aztecing IS the panels, where are all the panels on the original Constitution class? The original had no aztecing afaik.

Maybe it is just paint?
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Re: Windows?

Postby IanKennedy » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:18 pm

LaughingCheese wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote:I suspect those panels on the TMP shots are covers for airlocks or loading ports of some sort - I can't believe every panel on the surface is mounted on some sort of hinge that lets it open up.

But in general yes, it's always been depicted that Starships are built as some kind of cage of structural girders with the hull attached to them as a series of plates. Even the Abrams Enterprise is like that - look at the ship under construction and you can see that the hull is in plates attached to an underlying cage structure.



Also, if the aztecing IS the panels, where are all the panels on the original Constitution class? The original had no aztecing afaik.

Maybe it is just paint?

We can see from these picture that there are indeed panels, but they tend to be a pretty uniform colour, although not as much as you first think. Looking at the primary hull there is some slight variation. Perhaps the style of painting the panels different colours is a very modern thing?

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Re: Windows?

Postby LaughingCheese » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:21 pm

Cool!

I haven't seen any of the remastered TOS.

I wouldn't say its a "modern" style, just TOS movie era. Seems to have fallen out of favor in the 24th century.
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Re: Windows?

Postby Atekimogus » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:36 pm

IanKennedy wrote: Perhaps the style of painting the panels different colours is a very modern thing?


Maybe differnt coloured panels are a visual helper for the construction crews? Long shoot but standing on such a huge ship might be disorienting, so you take every help you can get;).

As for the panels oppening on the TMP Enterprise - I am not sure - but I think I remember them from somwhere that they are not for mainenance but for liquid storage.
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Re: Windows?

Postby LaughingCheese » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:48 am

Atekimogus wrote:
IanKennedy wrote: Perhaps the style of painting the panels different colours is a very modern thing?


Maybe differnt coloured panels are a visual helper for the construction crews? Long shoot but standing on such a huge ship might be disorienting, so you take every help you can get;).

As for the panels oppening on the TMP Enterprise - I am not sure - but I think I remember them from somwhere that they are not for mainenance but for liquid storage.



Possible, but I'd think a society in which highly advanced technology is prevalent like the Federation would probably just use the exact coordinates of the particular section their working on.
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Re: Windows?

Postby Atekimogus » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:30 am

That is true. However one would also assume that there is not really a need for welding panels anymore or that panels have slightly different colours because of material differences. (As soon as you can transport matter and manipulate it on a molecular level I would assume they have some form of "welding" that is pretty much seamless, leaving only a few panels removable they need in a hurry or for mainenance.)

Ironically, the original Enterprise (not the remastered) - because of this lack of detail - looks in that regard the most advanced of all. No aztec or welding marks visible.
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