Malaysia Airlines Plane Crashes in East Ukraine, Reports Say

[Nutso]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... st-ukraine

A passenger jet has reportedly crashed in eastern Ukraine in an area where separatist rebels have been engaging Ukrainian army forces in recent weeks.

The Malaysia Airlines plane, travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, apparently had 295 people on board and crashed near the town of Snezhnoe, according to a report from Interfax news agency which could not immediately be confirmed.

A source in the Russian aviation industry told Reuters that the plane did not enter Russian airspace when expected and had indeed crashed in eastern Ukraine.

In recent days the Ukrainian air force has lost planes in the area after they have been shot down by rebels. Earlier on Thursday, Ukraine accused Russia of downing one of its fighter jets inside Ukrainian territory.

Video in Ukraine

[Captain Seafort]

Beeb is saying the following on News 24:

1) Reuters (?) saw a Buk SAM (SA-11 Gadfly or SA-17 Grizzly) launched in the general area at the approximate time contact was lost.

2) Rebels are claiming to have shot down a Ukrainian aircraft.

Fuck.

[Mikey]

Russians or Russian-leaning forces have been shooting down Ukrainian aircraft in that area for some time. I guess now they think that Malaysian airliners look like Ukrainian fighters.

[Captain Seafort]

It's not unusual. One of the blue-on-blues in Iraq happened when a Patriot radar told its operator that a Tornado on finals was an incoming Scud. Compared to that the differences between an civilian airliner and a military transport aircraft are trivial.

[Mikey]

Really? Except for silhouette, I'd think a SCUD is a lot more similar to a Panavia Tornado than, for example, said Tornado is to a 747 or an Airbus... especially when you factor in the availability of raw burning fuel in the fighter's afterburners.

[Captain Seafort]

Really? Except for silhouette, I'd think a SCUD is a lot more similar to a Panavia Tornado than, for example, said Tornado is to a 747 or an Airbus... especially when you factor in the availability of raw burning fuel in the fighter's afterburners.

A Tornado on finals, flaps down, fairly low speed, on a low, flat trajectory, has a completely different flight profile to a Scud coming in ballistic at high mach. The system still confused the two. In this case, one aircraft in level flight at 35k ft would look much like any other.

[Teaos]

Maybe it wasn't an accident. The rebels have been having a bad go of it at late, maybe that want a shit storm.

[Captain Seafort]

Maybe it wasn't an accident. The rebels have been having a bad go of it at late, maybe that want a shit storm.

The only shitstorm this is likely to produce is one that brings half the planet down on their heads and causes the Russians to cut them off to avoid getting hammered by sanctions.

[Nutso]

Russia Today reports

Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia’s President Vladimir Putin’s jet shortly before the crash that killed 298, Interfax news agency reports citing sources.

“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft - 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

"The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical", the source added.

At the same time, there have been reports contradicting Intefax’s report that was the first and the only media source to publish the news, saying that Presidential plane was not flying over Ukraine at the same time.

As a source told Gazeta.ru online news portal, Putin’s plane does take off from Vnukovo-3 [the terminal that accepts business jets], but the president does not fly over the conflict-gripped neighboring country.

“Putin has only one jet – Board One, he does not fly other planes. This plane always takes off from Vnukovo-3, but the presidential plane have not been flying over Ukraine for a while,” the source at Vnukovo-3 terminal said.

President Putin was on his way from Brazil, where he attended the BRICS summit, to Moscow.

Ukraine should bear responsibility for Malaysian airliner tragedy, said the head of the Russian state at a meeting on economic issues, which he proposed to start with a minute of silence in memory of the victims of the disaster.

“Obviously, the state over whose territory it happened bears responsibility for this terrible tragedy,” he said late on Thursday.

“This tragedy would not have happened if there was peace on this land, if military action in the southeast of Ukraine had not been resumed,” Putin said, adding that he has asked the appropriate Russian authorities to do everything to investigate the matter.

Video: /files/news/2a/66/80/00/putin-ukraine-responsibility-0600_480p.mp4

“We must do everything in our power that an objective picture of what happened goes public in our community, in Ukraine and all over the world,” Putin said as he expressed his condolences to the families of victims.

Flight MH17 crashed in Ukraine on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, and was carrying 298 people. The passenger Boeing-777 was expected to enter Russian airspace at 5:20pm local time, but never did, a Russian aviation industry source said.“The plane crashed 60km away from the border,” Itar-Tass cited its source.

[Mikey]

The only shitstorm this is likely to produce is one that brings half the planet down on their heads and causes the Russians to cut them off to avoid getting hammered by sanctions.

Agreed. The largest and most defiant (to the rest of the world) source of support those rebels have is Russia itself, and even "Mad Dog" Putin isn't likely to countenance an intentional attack against a non-Ukrainian* civilian target.

*Unless it was Georgian, of course.

[Nutso]

More conspiracy theories from the U.K.'s beloved Daily Mail.

From CIA assassination cock-up to nefarious Illuminati involvement: The MH17 conspiracy theories doing the internet rounds

Was MH17 shot down by militants trying to assassinate Vladimir Putin?
Was it work of secret society The Illuminati to establish New World Order?
Were MH17 and MH370, which went missing in March, actually same plane?
Theorists ask why victims' pictured passports in such 'pristine' condition
Theories fueled by fact MH17 came down 17 years to day since maiden flight

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

More conspiracy theories from the U.K.'s beloved Daily Mail.

From CIA assassination cock-up to nefarious Illuminati involvement: The MH17 conspiracy theories doing the internet rounds

Was MH17 shot down by militants trying to assassinate Vladimir Putin?
Was it work of secret society The Illuminati to establish New World Order?
Were MH17 and MH370, which went missing in March, actually same plane?
Theorists ask why victims' pictured passports in such 'pristine' condition
Theories fueled by fact MH17 came down 17 years to day since maiden flight

Oh good fucking LORD!

[Captain Seafort]

That's the Mail for you.

[sunnyside]

As an American I suppose my response is somewhat muted knowing that we smoked an Iranian Airliner with 290 people on board back in the 80's, mistaking it for a military craft.

It's sounding like it was a Russian supplied Rebel fired missile. But I can't be so certain they realized what they were doing.

To be honest I could see someone not believing a civilian aircraft would fly right over a warzone where there were ongoing missile attacks against aircraft.

[Teaos]

Yeah, shit that it happened, but you can understand the logic of assuming that nothing civilian will be up there.