So how screwed are we?

In the real world

Re: So how screwed are we?

Postby McAvoy » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:14 pm

IanKennedy wrote:
McAvoy wrote:I say fuck it. Fire them all and vote new guys in.

If you do that, then be sure to only pick people that don't want to be elected.



That and no party alligences, term limits. No more ancient senators that per date the dinosaurs who do not even know their own name they are so senile.
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Re: So how screwed are we?

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:33 pm

Ian's got the right idea. Fire them all and pick people who don't want the job.
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Re: So how screwed are we?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:14 am

It seems to me that it's a very odd system where the legal enactment of a policy is so completely detached from paying for it. It seems crazy that the government can put a law in place, approve it in both houses, have the President sign off on it, have the supreme court approve it... and then turn around and say "but you know what? We're just not gonna pay for it so that it can't be enacted."

I know it's silly to compare two different government systems point for point, but over here something like this really just couldn't happen - a government that couldn't pass a budget is almost a contradiction in terms. I'm sure there must be some downside to that, but right now it looks pretty good in comparison.
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Re: So how screwed are we?

Postby Atekimogus » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:00 am

Well a short internet search reveals that the US are the 7th richest country in the world in 2013 and the richest big one there is, only small fish like Luxembourg, Quatar etc. are richer.

Now let that sink in for a moment. The 7th RICHEST country in the world.........throughs a sissy fit about a national health care programme, something which is pretty much standard in every other nation of the western hemisphaere. (Oh sorry, I forgot that in the rest of the western world socialism reigns and everyone prays to comrade stalin.... :roll: )


To an outsider it not only seems that, yes indeed the republicans are largely to blame for this, but also it seems that the whole nation has completely go nuts with hyper-capitalism. 7th richest country in the world....not enough money for the government, not enough money for universal health care.


What a joke the US have become.......it's just sad....


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Re: So how screwed are we?

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:21 pm

But that's not fair to the condom. At least it can work!
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Re: So how screwed are we?

Postby Vic » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:53 am

Atekimogus wrote:Well a short internet search reveals that the US are the 7th richest country in the world in 2013 and the richest big one there is, only small fish like Luxembourg, Quatar etc. are richer.

Now let that sink in for a moment. The 7th RICHEST country in the world.........throughs a sissy fit about a national health care programme, something which is pretty much standard in every other nation of the western hemisphaere. (Oh sorry, I forgot that in the rest of the western world socialism reigns and everyone prays to comrade stalin.... :roll: )


To an outsider it not only seems that, yes indeed the republicans are largely to blame for this, but also it seems that the whole nation has completely go nuts with hyper-capitalism. 7th richest country in the world....not enough money for the government, not enough money for universal health care.


What a joke the US have become.......it's just sad....


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Only the ideological hack idiots still blame only the Neo-Cons. The intelligent ones blame both sides, the Neo-Cons and the Faux-Libs, after all both sides are refusing to negotiate.
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Re: So how screwed are we?

Postby Atekimogus » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:48 am

Vic wrote:Only the ideological hack idiots still blame only the Neo-Cons. The intelligent ones blame both sides, the Neo-Cons and the Faux-Libs, after all both sides are refusing to negotiate.


I am sure you would be best served if you kicked them all out and started with new people from scratch. I am just saying that is how it looks like from over here over the great pond to an outsider. One party throwing a tantrum about a law they don't want and are willing to damage the whole country in the process.

Now what IS there to negotiate I ask myself. What they are doing is imho a mild form of terrorism. Heck, they are more effective than every other terrorist ever was...they were able to SHUT DOWN the whole government and from what I hear might even be able to make them go bancrupt. From were I am sitting Al Caida doesn'T need to do shit anymore, they need only sit back, watch and enjoy the clusterfuck!

So again...what is there to negotiate? You don't negotiate with terrorists. What other side to the story is there? How are Faux-Libs (who are they exactly? I imagine with Neo-Cons you mean this Tea Party...."people"?) to blame?
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Re: So how screwed are we?

Postby Teaos » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:59 am

Actually most smart people arent blaming the Libs. While they arent perfect in this situation they have done everything they should.

This is over funding the ACA, which has passed every sort of vote and public opinion poll there is.

If they negotiated now it would be a horrible preident. You want this to happen everytime something happens the Republicans dont like?

Chekc out how ofter filabustering used to happen, and how ofter it happens now to see how they treat radical political moves.
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Re: So how screwed are we?

Postby Vic » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:36 pm

Atekimogus; The Faux-Libs are the current Democratic Liberal Party, these are not true Liberals any more than the Neo-Cons are true Conservatives.
The Tea Party in the House does not have the numbers or the seniority to push anything without support. Who do you think is providing that support?

The Tea Party is the fall guy here, the Republican Party gets to kill two birds with one stone here. They get to fight Obamacare and knock the Tea Party members down a peg or two.

Just because it is a Law of the Land does not automatically mean that it gets enforced. It would be nice if all laws got enforced, no matter how distatefull they may be to some.

Teaos; I'm just curious how the Dems aren't to blame over this. Now, it is the prerogative of the Senate to say no to a House Bill. The difference this time is that the word is "no, period", not "no, but let's talk".

The House passed a Bill to fund the government, but not Obamacare. The Senate said "no Obamacare, no Bill, period, no negotiations at all". The President of the DNC, oh, excuse me, the President of the US is saying "no Obamacare I veto any Bill, period".

If the Senate and the President had said "let's talk about this" the House would have had no choice but to negotiate, despite all of the posturing otherwise.

As far as Law of the Land, I can think of quite a few Laws not currently being enforced, immigration laws being some of them.

HA! Filibuster? All that was was Cruz advertising himself, look at me, I'm fighting Obamacare! I wouldn't vote for Cruz for dogcatcher.
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Re: So how screwed are we?

Postby Teaos » Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:13 pm

Teaos; I'm just curious how the Dems aren't to blame over this. Now, it is the prerogative of the Senate to say no to a House Bill. The difference this time is that the word is "no, period", not "no, but let's talk".


They did talk for 6 fucking years. It is done, it is passed, it was debated for years and the public re-elected Obama.

The Republicans dont want to talk, they want to get rid of Obamacare. But that is not going to happen. They cant cry and throw a hissy fit and demand to talk when that is exactly what they dont want to do. They are not listening to the public who want the ACA.

If they want to talk, talk to the damn people.
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Re: So how screwed are we?

Postby Captain Picard's Hair » Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:52 pm

The two sides are not equally to blame because there's an important difference between the Republican refusal to negotiate and the Democratic refusal to negotiate. Republicans are trying to impose their will by extorting the rest of the government, having seen their position defeated in the standard democratic process. They're as noted above, acting as terrorists. Democrats are refusing to cave in to this tactic because you don't negotiate with terrorists, and especially not repeat offenders. Though it hadn't gone this far before, this isn't the first time the current Republican House of Representatives has tried this tactic. Previous Democratic efforts to negotiate off the ledge (in past 'crises' manufactured by Republicans) only encouraged the extremist Republicans. A precedent must not be set that laws voted and signed into being, and backed up by popular support cannot be unilaterally dismantled by a radical party, thus undermining the democratic process. To the extent the last election cycle was a referendum on Republican policies, they lost it badly. The Democrats refusal to "cooperate" is in the interests of protecting the democratic process established at the birth of this country by "founding fathers" the Tea Party claims to revere.
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Re: So how screwed are we?

Postby Atekimogus » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:54 pm

Vic wrote:Atekimogus; The Faux-Libs are the current Democratic Liberal Party, these are not true Liberals any more than the Neo-Cons are true Conservatives.
The Tea Party in the House does not have the numbers or the seniority to push anything without support. Who do you think is providing that support?

The Tea Party is the fall guy here, the Republican Party gets to kill two birds with one stone here. They get to fight Obamacare and knock the Tea Party members down a peg or two.

Just because it is a Law of the Land does not automatically mean that it gets enforced. It would be nice if all laws got enforced, no matter how distatefull they may be to some.


Well...to be honest I am not involved enough in US internal politics to differenciate between Neo-Cons, true conservatives, tea party or true liberals and what exactly that means. I am from europe so all I can go on are some interviews with certain members I catch sometimes and some general and imho objective reports. (Objective since - by and large - it is none of our business, so our news just report on it. For example they did not blame anyone for the current crisis, they just reported what is going on. Fortunatly, at least foreign politics is still reported objectivly on, by and large here.)

And my impression is this, that some republicans seem to be every bit as fanatical as the terrorists they want hunted and have political and moral views regarding their citiziens that would make the Gestapo blush, and religous views which I am not even touching. (You do know that everyone in europe thinks U.S is a joke because you even HAVE this ridiculous evolution vs. creationism debate, heck..in the good old days we just made fun of you not using metric....) And that the old republican presidents from the 60-80 seem to have been more liberal than the Democrats TODAY on some topics.

Tea Party is a joke.......I saw a few interviews with members and I initially thought that was a political satire. How can anyone take them seriously over there?


But that is all besides the point, what I would want to know......what exactly is their problem with this health care programme? Again, 7th richest nation in the world. I hope they are not saying the U.S cannot affort it, lol.
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Re: So how screwed are we?

Postby McAvoy » Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:30 pm

It comes down to blind fanatical loyalty to the party system.
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Re: So how screwed are we?

Postby Teaos » Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:36 pm

Maybe this will be the chance to really finally get a three or more party system.
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Re: So how screwed are we?

Postby Vic » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:31 am

The only way for a viable third party to happen is if moderates on both sides get together and tell the radicals in charge of their parties to go jump. Unfortunatly there are just too many people that will glare at you through their ideologically colored glasses and take another gulp of coolaid. Those who adamantly refuse to see that both sides are the problem are a big part of that problem.

Face it, our two party system is a dinosaur, it should go extinct before it damages this nation beyond repair.
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