Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

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Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Postby Deepcrush » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:40 pm

Gun control, just like gay marrage is largely a "bias" issue. I've been told both here on the forum from our European members and elsewhere in person by a lot of people that if we ban all guns then violence will stop. But those are the persons normally not affected by firearms. Since everyone likes drinking, no one is going to call for a ban on it again. The issue with banning firearms is that they would traffic the same way the booz did back during Prohibition. People who live in places that need or even just really want them, would still get them. If you can sneak assault weapons and explosives through a country as far out of the way as England. Then the US is just in a hopeless spot for it.
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Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Postby stitch626 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:12 pm

Containers of people are trafficked in and out (and some just take a waltz across the border)... I think guns would be cake.
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Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Postby shran » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:43 pm

Oh, the irony...

The National Rifle Association today held its first press conference since last week's deadly shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary, and the takeaway was clear: We need more guns.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," said NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre.

He went on to call for an armed police officer to be stationed in "every single school" across America to prevent further mass shootings, as critics tried to point out that armed law enforcement officials might not be the panacea the NRA thinks it is.

But before they could finish their sentence, the counterargument made itself as news broke of a mass shooting event in Pennsylvania with multiple casualties, including state troopers.
According to local reports out of Blair County, at least four people were killed and five more were injured in a shooting spree near Altoona. The gunman is said to be among the dead, and at least two state troopers were hospitalized with non-life-threatening injuries.

WPXI's Courtney Brennan says she was told by emergency officials that the shooting suspect "was 'mobile' at one point and went up and down a rural road and shot victims."

No additional information is available at this time, but a spokeswoman told the Altoona Mirror it was "a relatively large crime scene."

Meanwhile, back at the NRA press conference, LaPierre was blaming anything and everything for the Sandy Hook massacre except guns.

UPDATE: The shooter has been identified as 26-year-old Jeffrey Lee Michael of Hollidaysburg, PA.

According to the Altoona Mirror, for reasons yet unknown, Michael shot and killed 58-year-old Kimberly A. Scott of Duncansville while she was hanging Christmas decorations at the Juniata Valley Gospel Church.

He then left the scene and went to a nearby residence where he shot and killed another person. Michael then got in his pickup truck and drove off, eventually crashing into another vehicle. He exited his truck and shot the driver of the second car, killing him.

Following a separate head-on collision with a state trooper who was injured in the crash, Michael began shooting at responding troopers and was subsequently shot and killed. In the exchange, one trooper was wounded after being struck by a bullet in his wrist, and another trooper sustained injuries from broken glass.

A motive for the shooting spree has yet to be revealed.


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Another thing that hasn't been brought up here yet is the Werther effect. Although it strictly handles suicide, the coverage by the media make it seem more 'normal' to do the same thing, thus causing emulation, perhaps letting others who would not have committed such a massacre tip over and be enticed to actually commit it, rather than refraining from it at the last moment, or perhaps an earlier stage.
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Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Postby Deepcrush » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:50 pm

Sorry but what is your supposed irony from this post?
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Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Postby Sonic Glitch » Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:25 am

I'm guessing it's the fact that another shooting occurred while the NRA was telling us more guns would make us safer.
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Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Postby Graham Kennedy » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:24 pm

SteveK wrote:The consensus among Americans, as voiced by our democratically established laws is that the risk of guns is light compared to the benefits, real or imagined, of owning them. We could be wrong, but owning guns has long been part of the American tradition so we've been reluctant to change.

Indeed. As I said earlier, if you believe that the occasional school massacre is a price worth paying for the right to have guns, then that's certainly a valid conclusion to come to.
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Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Postby shran » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:48 pm

Sonic Glitch wrote:I'm guessing it's the fact that another shooting occurred while the NRA was telling us more guns would make us safer.

That's what I was aiming at, although my grasp of the concept of irony probably needs work too.
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Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Postby Angharrad » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:12 am

Meanwhile, back in NY

4 Firefighters Shot, 2 Killed At Webster, New York Fire Scene; Shooter Dead

WEBSTER, N.Y. -- Authorities say four firefighters were shot, two of them killed while responding to a house fire in western New York.

Officials in the town of Webster tell local media outlets that someone shot at firefighters around 6 a.m. Monday when they arrived at the scene of the blaze just east of Rochester.

The shooter has been identified as William Spengler, 62, a convicted killer.

The dead are Lt. Mike Chiapperini, 43, a volunteer firefighter and Webster Police Department’s public information officer, and firefighter Tomasz Kaczowka. Theodore Scardino and Joseph Hofstetter were also shot and are recovering in guarded condition at Strong Memorial Hospital.

Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering told reporters that Spengler was found dead outside the home where the shootings occurred, killed by a self-inflicted gunshot. Pickering said Spengler opened fire at the firefighters when they pulled up to a house in the 100 block of Lake Road. One firefighter was able to flee the scene, while the other three were "pinned down at the location." A SWAT team responded, rescued the firefighter who was alive and then engaged the suspect.

Pickering spoke through tears as he described the violent scene, which appeared to be set up on purpose.

"It does appear that [the fire scene] was a trap that was set," Pickering said in a press conference.
Police secured the area by 10 a.m. and firefighters started combating the blaze, which spread to four houses, according to the Democrat and Chronicle. Four houses were completely destroyed and four others were damaged, but the fire is under control, Pickering said.

An off-duty Greece police officer driving nearby the was also injured by shrapnel. He was taken to the hospital.

SWAT teams reportedly been evacuated 33 nearby residents and took them by armored vehicle out of the neighborhood.

A call between an injured fireman and a dispatcher made this morning was released. It can be heard here.


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Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Postby Deepcrush » Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:52 am

Sonic Glitch wrote:I'm guessing it's the fact that another shooting occurred while the NRA was telling us more guns would make us safer.


Not much of an irony, one shooting against defenseless civilians kills 27. The other, against armed persons kills two. Makes the NRA's point pretty strong when you increase the chances of survival by nearly 14x.
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Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Postby stitch626 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:43 am

Deepcrush wrote:
Sonic Glitch wrote:I'm guessing it's the fact that another shooting occurred while the NRA was telling us more guns would make us safer.


Not much of an irony, one shooting against defenseless civilians kills 27. The other, against armed persons kills two. Makes the NRA's point pretty strong when you increase the chances of survival by nearly 14x.

The reason only two were killed was because he was going around to different areas. If it had been a mall or something, it would have likely been worse.

Howevever, even if it was clear evidence of guns=protection, its still useless because they were trained cops, as opposed to untrained average joe.
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Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Postby Tsukiyumi » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:13 am

stitch626 wrote:...they were trained cops, as opposed to untrained average joe.


I have it on solid authority that, down here at least, average joe is likely to be considerably better trained than a cop. Cops have to qualify once a year, IIRC (it might be even less), and they just don't train. Detectives, yes; beat cops, no. The exact words used were, "There are kids that come up to shoot that are better than the majority of cops."
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Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Postby stitch626 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:17 pm

Tsukiyumi wrote:
stitch626 wrote:...they were trained cops, as opposed to untrained average joe.


I have it on solid authority that, down here at least, average joe is likely to be considerably better trained than a cop. Cops have to qualify once a year, IIRC (it might be even less), and they just don't train. Detectives, yes; beat cops, no. The exact words used were, "There are kids that come up to shoot that are better than the majority of cops."

Eek... I won't be going to Texas anytime soon.

Up here unless they get a certain number of hours of firearms training per year (varies on which branch: city, town, state) they get desked. A lot are not only trained with pistols but also riot gear in areas that can't afford their own division.
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Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Postby Tsukiyumi » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:57 pm

Oh, they get a certain number of hours of training and practice; it's just that they still suck afterward compared to people who actually have skill or train frequently.

Not really a Texas thing either; I think my friend is from the northeast originally.
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Re: Shooting at small town elementry school in Conneticut

Postby Deepcrush » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:38 am

It isNt just a matter of trained or not responder was in force. But that a person or persons armed kept the cost of live low where the "gun free zone" sign that so many praise failed.
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