Admiral Cain

Admiral Cain

Postby Lt. Staplic » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:56 am

So I've started watching nBSG on Hulu recently and just passed the three-parter with Admiral Kaine (or how ever you spell her name) and I was wondering something. Roselin decides that Adama should have Kaine killed before Kaine can dismantle the civilian fleet for more military operations against the cylons, but why is that necessary? I may be missing something about colony law and the powers of the President of the Colonies, but shouldn't Roselin be Kaine's boss and therefore be able to order her to stand down as needed to keep her in check while using her aggression and determination to help keep them safe?
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Re: Admiral Kaine

Postby SolkaTruesilver » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:53 pm

Remember Adama's initial stance regarding Rodlin supposed authority. Ultimately, it was only worth whatever respect the current military leader had in the constitution, and willingness to surrender authority power to the Secretary of Education.

Adama eventually yielded to Roslin's authority because at the core, he is a true believer in morals and civilian power over the military.

At the core, Cain was a spiteful and vengeful warrior. She wasn't going to respect any presidential authority if it was going to conflict with her agenda. The way she saw it, it was a military crisis and thu supreme authority laid in the military's leadership in all things. And everything had to be treated with a military point of view, which explains why she crippled her convoy fleet.

Had she babysat them, she would have taken a nonmilitary decision and compromised the very basis of her supreme command.
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Re: Admiral Kaine

Postby Sonic Glitch » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:30 pm

That's basically it. Cain had absolutely no respect for Roslin's leadership -- or anyone's civilian leadership. I think her view was adequately summed up in,

"Is this what the two of you have been doing for the past six months? Debating the finer points of Colonial law? Well, guess what, we're at *war*! And we don't have the luxury of academic debate over these issues. " -- Cain
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Re: Admiral Kaine

Postby SolkaTruesilver » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:05 pm

Thing is, While Cain might have been a fine military leader (in a traditional society), she completely lost view of the entire picture.

Even if she had had her way with the Errant Fleet, dismantled it for spare parts, drafted civilians that could be used and got the Galactica on her side. Even if with that, shed have found a way to defeat the Cylons once and for all.

She still would have lost. They would have been 2 Battlestars with no home port, with no population to replace their crew eventually. Cain forgot that the most important thing in a war isn't to defeat your enemy; that's merely a mean to an end. The most important thing is protect your home population. Without them, you aren't an army. You are just a bunch of wandering raiders.
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Re: Admiral Kaine

Postby Lt. Staplic » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:33 pm

I get that, but Roselin also had Adama on her side which is a step ahead of where she was when Martial Law got declared and the pressure of the civilians then was starting to get to the colonel (admittedly, with the marines able to board ships I doubt the civilians would have been able to regain control from the military).

If worse came to worse, they could have simply treated the Pegasus like a Cylon Base Star, had Galactica scramble fighters to buy enough time for the rest of the fleet to jump to emergency coordinates. They loose the Pegasus supplies, but they were managing without them before, and the civilians weren't really getting many (any) of them any way.

I just don't see why assassination became the primary choice of action.
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Re: Admiral Kaine

Postby Graham Kennedy » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:50 pm

Bear in mind that Pegasus was a fair bit larger and more modern than Galactica. If they'd tried to stand her off whilst the fleet escaped, they may well have lost the Galactica.

Also bear in mind that they may have wanted more than simply to cut their own losses and run away. Having a second Battlestar on hand was a colossal increase in their defensive capability. If you run away, at the very least you're back where you started. If you fight, at best you damage both battlestars, maybe lose theirs, maybe lose yours, maybe lose both.

If you put a bullet through Kane's head, you get to keep both battlestars intact.
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Re: Admiral Kaine

Postby SolkaTruesilver » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:14 pm

Not to forget, if you trust Galactica's bible, the Pegasus had Viper training simulator and a Viper factory.

The Pegaus was simply to big of an asset to turn down. Why is why I wanted to slap Lee for sacrificing it over the Galactica.
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Re: Admiral Kaine

Postby McAvoy » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:05 am

Yeah there was a Viper factory or something like that. On a ship that size it's doable. Viper training simulator just makes sense to have on all ships.
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Re: Admiral Kaine

Postby SolkaTruesilver » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:45 am

McAvoy wrote:Yeah there was a Viper factory or something like that. On a ship that size it's doable. Viper training simulator just makes sense to have on all ships.


Why? I mean, it makes sense in retrospective if you are cut off from any military base or home port, on the run in the emptiness of space. But the colonial military had no doubt plenty of military academies to train pilots.

Unless.. Yhea, I think I see where you wanted to go with that. The original Galactica, deployed in a time of war, had the pilots constantly tested. While the Pegasus, build in peace time, was probably designed thinking it's more efficient to keep your pilot sharp by making them train in a simulator rather than giving them live exercises.
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Re: Admiral Kaine

Postby Captain Seafort » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:09 pm

SolkaTruesilver wrote:Unless.. Yhea, I think I see where you wanted to go with that. The original Galactica, deployed in a time of war, had the pilots constantly tested. While the Pegasus, build in peace time, was probably designed thinking it's more efficient to keep your pilot sharp by making them train in a simulator rather than giving them live exercises.


It's not just a matter of being cheaper, it's also safer and more flexible. If you're preparing for a specific mission, for example, it would be useful to load the profile onto the simulator for a few run throughs, to practice contingency drills. It won't be perfect, but it'll be better than nothing.
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Re: Admiral Kaine

Postby SolkaTruesilver » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:37 pm

That would make sense. But I guess I understand why Cylon War-era military wouldn't want to have a networked training simulator.
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Re: Admiral Kaine

Postby McAvoy » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:18 pm

Militaries have simulators that are self contained units. You got the simulator and an observer post (lack of a better name) that monitors and modifies the scenario as needed.
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Re: Admiral Kaine

Postby Captain Seafort » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:22 pm

McAvoy wrote:Militaries have simulators that are self contained units. You got the simulator and an observer post (lack of a better name) that monitors and modifies the scenario as needed.


You'd still need networked simulators if you wanted to exercise a strike package, but there's no reason that couldn't be airgapped from the ship's operational systems.
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Re: Admiral Kaine

Postby McAvoy » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:48 pm

Possibly. However, something like that can already be pre-programmed in, the only thing that would be difficult would be the area the area where the strike package would be. So it would be a matter of pulling up what you need to sim that strike package using the information given to you.
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Re: Admiral Kaine

Postby Captain Seafort » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:55 pm

I'm not talking about simulating it - I'm talking about exercising it as a unit.
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