Post-ENT Starfleet/Early Federation

Trek Books, Games and General chat
Post Reply
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 6225
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Post-ENT Starfleet/Early Federation

Post by McAvoy »

I just rewatched ENT over the past month for the first time in five years. It's not as bad I remember, though the one particular holodeck TNG episode that somehow ended up in there is still terrible.

Anyway it got me thinking and I am sure this has to be discussed. I am wondering if the Federation was as unified as we thought at it's formation. This is what I am thinking, the War with the Romulans had a combination of Tellerite, Vulcan, Andorian and Human fleets along with other races mixed in. I highly doubt that when the Federation formed, the member fleets were disbanded or discontinued and replaced with Starfleet ships. I am thinking that a fully integrated Federation Starfleet was in progress even in TOS. Movie TOS it was becoming more and more integrated with the member races and TNG, Starfleet was the main defense fleet for the Federation with member races maintaining a police force with their homeworlds and colonies.

I think Post-Ent and Pre-TOS we would have seen a joint exercise fleet among the member worlds with the Federation overseeing each race's fleet but still giving them near free rain in how to use their fleet.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11561
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK
Contact:

Re: Post-ENT Starfleet/Early Federation

Post by Graham Kennedy »

What little we see of the Federation government in TOS, to me seems to be more along the UN or EU model than the USA model that seems to be more the case in TNG. So I can certainly buy the idea that the Federation started off as quite a loose alliance and then gradually became more integrated over time.

I'd never really thought about fleets, but again, I can picture the Starfleet of the first fifty years operating similar to NATO - everyone maintaining their own forces, but assigning some of those forces to operate under Starfleet control. Over time the governments commit to standardising elements of ship design to assist in interoperability. Gradually certain systems become common - so the latest Earth ship has Vulcan shields, Andorian phasers, etc.

And then you see things like the Euro cooperative programs to produce one ship that many planets will build and operate (which never work out for anybody with ships and tanks, but sometimes do with fighters).

If we assume that the human contribution to all this was specialisation in basic hull designs, it would explain why by TOS all Starfleet ships seemed to be based on the Human model of saucer, maybe engineering hull, nacelles, etc.

There's not much to support all that in actual Trek, but I do like it as an idea. It makes a lot of sense.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
Captain Seafort
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 15548
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Post-ENT Starfleet/Early Federation

Post by Captain Seafort »

Graham Kennedy wrote:And then you see things like the Euro cooperative programs to produce one ship that many planets will build and operate (which never work out for anybody with ships and tanks, but sometimes do with fighters).
Unless you count everyone but the US, UK and France buying Leos. It's not a cooperative design, but it is pretty standard.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11561
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK
Contact:

Re: Post-ENT Starfleet/Early Federation

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Captain Seafort wrote:
Graham Kennedy wrote:And then you see things like the Euro cooperative programs to produce one ship that many planets will build and operate (which never work out for anybody with ships and tanks, but sometimes do with fighters).
Unless you count everyone but the US, UK and France buying Leos. It's not a cooperative design, but it is pretty standard.
Which is why I said cooperative programs don't tend to work out. There have been several attempts to develop a Euro-tank or a NATO-tank, IIRC. Every one fell at the feet of differing requirements. Similar with Euro-Frigates and Destroyers. Silly really, given how much everyone spends developing their own systems. But then nobody wants to send that money abroad.

Aircraft work out better, with the Jaguar and Tornado and Typhoon. But even they had a lot of problems related to having different nations involved, what with the German attempts to bugger up the Typhoon, the French going their own way with Rafale, etc.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 35635
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:04 am
Commendations: The Daystrom Award
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Post-ENT Starfleet/Early Federation

Post by Mikey »

And the Tornado... less said about that, the better. The only people who ever bought one besides the folks who were invested in making it were the Saudis.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
User avatar
IanKennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 6155
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:28 pm
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Post-ENT Starfleet/Early Federation

Post by IanKennedy »

The problem behind these things isn't just not wanting to send the money outside. There's also a security element of it. If you end up fighting the people that also have that item, they know just as much about it as you do.
email, ergo spam
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 6225
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Post-ENT Starfleet/Early Federation

Post by McAvoy »

I also think the humans were the ones with the drive to expand, explore and advance themselves. ENT basically gave this impression that Starship tech was stagnant. Think about it, in the 22nd century, there was some limited use of the transporter, tractor beams on all but the Nx class, shields, photon torpedos. Warp speed seemed to be the most stagnant with Warp Speed limited to 5 or 7 in the most advanced Vulcan ships.

I got the impression that humans were unique. Seems like every race took their time in their progress while humans were doing it leaps and bounds.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 6225
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Post-ENT Starfleet/Early Federation

Post by McAvoy »

I also still like the idea that even in the 24th century that member planets do maintain their own defense force for their own home system and colonies. But at the same time contributing to Starfleet whether it's shipyards or personnel.

I always liked the idea of the Norway, Sabre, Steamrunner classes being of a design from a member rave like the Andorians for example. Which would explain why they look so much different to other Starfleet ships.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
Post Reply