Starfleet's starship look

Trek Books, Games and General chat
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 6225
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Starfleet's starship look

Post by McAvoy »

So I was thinking about why Starfleet has the look that had a Earth based design lineage. Also why the ships have English words painted on them (we could ignore that for sanity's sake).

I think Earth was a major player and the main focus of the Romulus Earth War but still drew in the other powers as well. Maybe Romulus recognized that humans were the glue of the little Alliance.

So even with perhaps inferior ships and maybe even inferior fleet size, Earth stepped up production and out built everyone.

Beginning of the Federation everyone still had their fleet and for a time continued to operate and replace their old ships. Over time that became secondary as the human based fleet started to take dominance to the point where they were the sole design lineage for the fleet.

But the other races still used some of their own influences in design into the 'official' design pattern. Which is why some odd looking ships appear like the Norway or the Steamrunner class.

It could also explain why Starfleet has a wide variety of ships that probably do similar tasks as the major races with in the Federation build their own equivalent Starfleet ships for the Federation using Earth based templates. Perhaps to prevent Earth and the humans from having a monopoly on the fleet.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11561
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK
Contact:

Re: Starfleet's starship look

Post by Graham Kennedy »

I always thought that the Earth model turned out to be a superior design. The Vulcan ring ships we see are more advanced than Earth ships, but given how the Enterprise Vulcans are I can easily see those being extremely mature designs that the Vulcans have been tinkering with for centuries, gradually making smaller and smaller improvements because they've just about reached the maximum potential of the design model, and there's just not much further to take it. Whereas the human design model may be inferior but it's a new design concept, with a ton of room for improvement. So over time it just supplanted the Vulcan, Tellarite and Andorian designs.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 6225
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Starfleet's starship look

Post by McAvoy »

That would suggest that it was a new design from what everyone else was using.

Problem is Starfleet's design is rare. We see more alien ships with nacelles integrated, and more of a single hull design. Those who are not like that share more in common with Klingon and Romulan designs.

That is just off hand without really looking into it.

Could be for an interesting article if someone compared all of the Trek ship designs though
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11561
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK
Contact:

Re: Starfleet's starship look

Post by Graham Kennedy »

McAvoy wrote:That would suggest that it was a new design from what everyone else was using.
Well it is, isn't it? We've never seen anybody else using an Earth-style design, that I can think of. Which is kind of weird, when you think about it.
Problem is Starfleet's design is rare. We see more alien ships with nacelles integrated, and more of a single hull design. Those who are not like that share more in common with Klingon and Romulan designs.
Funny, but if you think about it the basic Klingon D-7 cruiser design is rather like the Constitution in broad strokes. Both have the warp engines on nacelles separate from the main body of the ship, but attached to an engineering hull. Both have a second hull attached by a neck to the engineering hull. There are different shapes and proportions at work, obviously, but it's not radically different.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
Teaos
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 15368
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:00 am
Commendations: The Daystrom Award
Location: Behind you!

Re: Starfleet's starship look

Post by Teaos »

Maybe Earth was the planet most willing to be the industrial base. If Vulcan didnt want to play host to the "military" aspect of statfleet, and the other powers not wanting former enemies on their home world.

I think it was Earth willingness to embrace everyone on their planets that gave them the leading position, as design flowed out from there. Earth didnt need to be the best to lead the newly formed Federation... it just needed to be the least objectionable.
What does defeat mean to you?

Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 35635
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:04 am
Commendations: The Daystrom Award
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Starfleet's starship look

Post by Mikey »

I'm with GK, I always figured that the Earth-type design aesthetic took over because of its merits. Like he said, the design type featuring twin nacelles, a main engineering/bulk hull and a secondary command/bridge hull seems - in broad strokes - to have been common to Earth, Andorian, Romulan, and Klingon shipbuilding to name a few prominent cultures offhand.

In addition, Earth was the up-and-comers of the nascent Federation. Earth design philosophy would be more dynamic, adaptable, and easy to modify with the best SOP's of other cultures' ideas.

As to the lettering... I hate to use an OOU idea to explain an IU factoid, but I always take the "Babel fish" approach - what we see is just a TV-friendly translation of what would be Galactic Standard characters.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
User avatar
Jim
Captain
Captain
Posts: 1907
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:32 pm
Location: Pittsburgh
Contact:

Re: Starfleet's starship look

Post by Jim »

As you pointed out, the general style (function wise) was used by various races. Additional bias toward certain things could be due to the technology, different power cores, different coils etc, and the restrictions or requirements of those. The white might just have been the preference of the original design team, nothing more than their opinion for the best look with an eye to expense.

Then, when you look across the races, most of each races ships have a similar look.
Ugh... do not thump the Book of G'Quan...
User avatar
LaughingCheese
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:57 am

Re: Starfleet's starship look

Post by LaughingCheese »

The Vulcan design more scientifically accurate, at least according to recent theories.


Also I read somewhere the elongated saucer section design is supposed to help with subspace flow, being analogous to aerodynamics.
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 35635
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:04 am
Commendations: The Daystrom Award
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Starfleet's starship look

Post by Mikey »

LaughingCheese wrote:Also I read somewhere the elongated saucer section design is supposed to help with subspace flow, being analogous to aerodynamics.
This supposedly is the rationale behind Roddenberry's rules of ship design (the IU rationale, anyway, the real reason being to fuck Franz Joseph.) The only fact of the matter is that we can't really fathom any facts about subspace fluid dynamics any more than we can discuss biological facts about fire-breathing dragons.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
Coalition
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:34 am
Location: Georgia, United States
Contact:

Re: Starfleet's starship look

Post by Coalition »

The other option is Federation ships were optimized for speed. When you are dealing with a cloaked opponent, you have to get to areas where they might strike next. So each system gets a starbase equivalent, that will hold out against Romulan ships for a period of time. Starfleet reinforcements have to arrive within that period of time, so the faster they get there, the better.

The Vulcan design might be the most efficient in terms of fuel usage, the Klingon design might be the best in terms of cloak and protection, Romulan design is optimized for cloak, but the Federation decided that getting to the trouble spot first is a good idea.

This also leads to a set of cultural changes. When a race is in trouble, who shows up to help right away? The humans from Earth. They don't have that much in terms of resources, but their presence means an interstellar power is now looking over your planet.
Relativity Calculator
My Nomination for "MVAM Critic Award" (But can it be broken into 3 separate pieces?)
User avatar
Reliant121
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
Posts: 12263
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:00 pm

Re: Starfleet's starship look

Post by Reliant121 »

Federation starships always struck me having an awful lot exposed surface area compared to more stout designs by the Klingons and Andorians; perhaps, given Starfleets predisposition toward exploration and investigation, more exposed surface area supports a greater number of different types of sensors needed for exploration.

It could simply be a sense of nostalgia; many of our great discovery's have been via radio telescopes that are the same disc shape as the primary hulls of Federation ships.
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 6225
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Starfleet's starship look

Post by McAvoy »

The saucer is really the biggest difference between all alien ships. Yes, there are ships with a distinct engineering or secondary hull with something protruding out front, but none of them are saucer shaped. They are everything but saucer shaped. Some of them are a single hull design with nacelles integrated with the hull for example.

It's cool because you could say there are different varieties of warp drive designs out there and the Federation version is just one of them, and perhaps the saucer performs a function for that type.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 35635
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:04 am
Commendations: The Daystrom Award
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Starfleet's starship look

Post by Mikey »

If we're talking simply about the saucer vs. other "command modules," I think we can chalk that up to the difference in intent between the UFP and other governments. A saucer primary hull - as compared to the simple neck/head of the Klingon and Rommie designs, the more integrated Cardie and TOS Romulan ships, etc. - lends itself to a more exploratory, less martial mission statement. I.e., a saucer is certainly more vulnerable, harder to shield, and presents a larger profile to enemy gunners; by the same token, it also allows for greater surface area of sensor arrays, larger computer capacities, etc.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
DarkMoineau
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:03 am

Re: Starfleet's starship look

Post by DarkMoineau »

But the saucer allow for phaser array... Isn't that a tactical advantage? Or at least a compensation.
If you want to ask me, this avatar is a resized version of "The War Come Home" by Davemetlesits found on DeviantArt
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 35635
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:04 am
Commendations: The Daystrom Award
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Starfleet's starship look

Post by Mikey »

DarkMoineau wrote:But the saucer allow for phaser array... Isn't that a tactical advantage? Or at least a compensation.
As I understand it, it's the technology of the phaser itself compared to disrupters that allows for arrays. If disrupter tech allowed arrays, they could be strung laterally along the head and neck of a Klingon ship (for example.) An individual array wouldn't have the field of fire that one on a saucer would, but that's neither here nor there.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
Post Reply