Klingon Fleet

[McAvoy]

I was thinking about this. Has there ever been a mention of Great Houses owning their own personal fleet/ships that they use for their own purposes? Or to wage battle with their rivals?

To me it seems to make sense. Even makes sense if you include older ships like D7s or the D12 the Duras Sisters had. Houses that hang onto even old ships just because it is a 'honored' ship or a stat in the House's personal fleet. Like Klingon Family A has 20 ships all composed of B'rels and K'Vorts where rival Klingon Family B has a fleet of 30 ships composed of D7s and maybe a Vorcha.

Expanding upon this, it could explain a large number of the same ships being built. Houses have personal shipyards they use to build ships. The Bird of Prey being the most common and cheapest ships to build and the only design allowed to build. So the Klingon Houses build bigger or smaller versions (ignoring the obvious scaling issues).

Just a thought.

[Graham Kennedy]

Pretty sure that's the way it is. Look at the civil war they fought, a large part of it came down to which houses sided with which side and how big the forces they control were.

But there clearly is some centralization going on, or we'd see a massive variety of ship designs, with each house producing their own.

I'd guess that some houses specialise in warship design and construction, and gain power/prestige by giving/selling the designs or even whole ships to other houses. Hence each house has their own fleet, but they are common designs. When the Chancellor calls, the houses prove their loyalty by sending ships to join the cause. But the right trigger can cause the houses to war on one another, too.

[Mikey]

Based on the Klingon Civil War eps, I like GK gathered that each House fields its own fleet. It would seem that those fleets have a small degree of autonomy - witness Kurn devising his own independent strategies and tactics - but each House fleet falls under the jurisdiction of an overseeing officer from the entity to which that House pledges fealty.

Like GK, I am also somewhat stumped on the consistency of starship design across the fleets of various Houses, but this might be an excuse to rationalize the myriad different sizes of the BoP design.

[Nutso]

So does one House come up with a new design, like the Negh'Var, and sell this design to the other Houses?

[Lt. Staplic]

It makes sense that the Houses control their own forces considering the seemingly feudal-type government. My best guess on explaining the relative uniformity of designs is that no one house develops the designs anymore. It seems to me that once the Empire made contact with the likes of the Romulans, Federation, et el, they put aside their own internal differences (to a degree) to form a more stable central government, which is why everyone deals with the Empire (singular) instead of each House. Seems logical to me that certain R&D efforts and resources would be pooled to ensure that no one house, or the Empire as a whole would fall so far behind so as to become outmatched by one of the Empire's enemies. Obviously during Civil Wars or other internal disagreements the nature of this sharing would become limited/halted. The numerous and (likely) sudden interruptions could also seem to explain why the Klingons don't seem to advance as fast as other powers.

[Coalition]

Perhaps only the Imperial shipyards are allowed to build new craft (of a certain size), while House yards are not. Houses are officially gifted ships in exchange for loyalty (or great sacrifice), but in reality most of the Houses pay for them (as can be seen in House of Quark, Klingons do keep very good records). This keeps control over new capital ships (officially) in the hands of the Emperor, though in reality the wealthier Houses can order a series of capital ships to be built, and the yards just pass it off as 'normal construction' (the House has bought 5 capital ships every year for the past 50 years, and plan to keep on buying them). Excess resources are used to build extra ships for the Imperial Fleet, or whatever the Emperor chooses.

This causes all new capital ships to be built at the main Imperial shipyards, that are mostly funded by the various Houses. The Houses then refit the ships based on their preferred tactics. For vessels below the mass limitation (I.e. Birds of Prey), the Houses can build all they want (as ships that small aren't a real threat except in large numbers). Houses also get by with refitting older ships with newer weaponry, allowing them to keep a strong fleet, even if they aren't the current favorite of the Emperor (or Imperial Council). There will be smaller ships built by the Imperial yards, but those are often specialists (i.e. better cloak scouts, special forces vessels, etc) and require more resources to produce than a regular Bird of Prey (for example, instead of regular computer components, these are faster computers to handle higher loads).

If a House raids a rival House and manage to steal a capital warship, it is all in good fun. The raided House will want the ship back without the Emperor finding out, so will arrange for some sort of exchange. It could range from a transfer of resources, to an arranged marriage between the two Houses (often with the leader of the raiding group being the one married off). If the raided House cannot come up with some sort of exchange to get their ship back, they may try a counter-raid, or go after another House.

[McAvoy]

Perhaps only the Imperial shipyards are allowed to build new craft (of a certain size), while House yards are not. Houses are officially gifted ships in exchange for loyalty (or great sacrifice), but in reality most of the Houses pay for them (as can be seen in House of Quark, Klingons do keep very good records). This keeps control over new capital ships (officially) in the hands of the Emperor, though in reality the wealthier Houses can order a series of capital ships to be built, and the yards just pass it off as 'normal construction' (the House has bought 5 capital ships every year for the past 50 years, and plan to keep on buying them). Excess resources are used to build extra ships for the Imperial Fleet, or whatever the Emperor chooses.

This causes all new capital ships to be built at the main Imperial shipyards, that are mostly funded by the various Houses. The Houses then refit the ships based on their preferred tactics. For vessels below the mass limitation (I.e. Birds of Prey), the Houses can build all they want (as ships that small aren't a real threat except in large numbers). Houses also get by with refitting older ships with newer weaponry, allowing them to keep a strong fleet, even if they aren't the current favorite of the Emperor (or Imperial Council). There will be smaller ships built by the Imperial yards, but those are often specialists (i.e. better cloak scouts, special forces vessels, etc) and require more resources to produce than a regular Bird of Prey (for example, instead of regular computer components, these are faster computers to handle higher loads).

Seems possible. It could explain the differences in the D7 having glowing nacelles and a Ktinga having a beam weapon in place of a torpedo tube.

They could also sacrifice for example real shields for stronger frontal shields because warriors do not run away from battle. Some ships could hhave heavier armor too.

If a House raids a rival House and manage to steal a capital warship, it is all in good fun. The raided House will want the ship back without the Emperor finding out, so will arrange for some sort of exchange. It could range from a transfer of resources, to an arranged marriage between the two Houses (often with the leader of the raiding group being the one married off). If the raided House cannot come up with some sort of exchange to get their ship back, they may try a counter-raid, or go after another House.

[Mikey]

Sounds OK, but in a manorial economy (which goes with a feudal government) it would be the vassal entities - in this case the Houses - which supply the ships to the Imperial body, not vice verse. Perhaps the Houses fund the ships but the actual design and construction are left in Imperial hands, and then each House is left to oversee the fleet it has funded while pledging it in name to the Imperial cause?

[Black Jesus]

I'm thinking the Empire builds the ships in their shipyards--they sell some to Houses while keeping others for Imperial use.

There appeared, to me at least, to be a two-tiered system, the KDF and then the Houses and their ships. The KDF under governmental control and then the smaller but still potent and needed "militia" fleets of the Houses under indirect control.

[Jim]

I would side with the houses NOT building their own ships. The infrastructure, R&D and skilled labor force would need to be quite impressive under each house for that. I would think it as more like trucking "fleets". They are built by one company, potentially customized or even specialized per order, and then sold to the houses.

[Reliant121]

Could perhaps the fleet yards that produce these ships be privatised business? Sort of like ordering a car from a manufacturer?

[Coalition]

Could perhaps the fleet yards that produce these ships be privatised business? Sort of like ordering a car from a manufacturer?

Business, manufacturer, the important part is making sure the Emperor owns it. A smart Emperor keeps track of what makes the Empire strong (and rebellions small), and ensures that he controls it.

I'd say the following are owned by the Emperor (or at least, his position):
* Capital shipyards
* Primary research institutes (similar to IBM Research Centers, but on an Imperial scale)
* Elite troop training centers (turning the regular warriors that the Houses all have into the Special Forces/Delta Force/other highly-trained personnel. Houses do not offer their troops, they are invited, based on the prior performance of the warriors they send. So if a House sends poor warriors, they get fewer invites, and fewer chances to have the better trained personnel return home.)
* Imperial Freight Network (Emperors have learned that resources in the right place are a good thing. The fees for using it are small, but the gigatonnage moved every year ensures a steady revenue stream for the Emperor)
* Deep Survey Fleet (to explore regions far outside the Empire, or to explore deep within enemy territory. Houses might be comfortable knowing what is 20-100 ly away, the Emperor's vision stretches farther. Some might say these Klingons are a bit off, as they tend to assimilate target Empire attitudes. Sine most of the crew comes from the Elite Troop Training Centers, this is encouraged, so the crew gets to have fun when they get back.)
* Imperial Harem (this is actually where the Emperor can go to relax, as nobody outside is allowed to talk to them. Here he can discuss his worries without concern that a House will try to use it for their advantage. Harem members are received from the various slave species under Klingon control, to especially prevent a House from gaining influence. They are treated as honored guests, rather than servants/slaves, and their families receive preferential treatment as a result.)

[Mikey]

That much done directly by the Imperial seat seems to ignore the tenets that support manorial economics/feudal politics. Sure, there would be some things that are the demesne of the Emperor and only the Emperor; but survey fleets, research, freight, and the like in a system in which "landed" houses serve vassalage to the Emperor would be operated by those vassals with the Imperial seat taking its share of the proceeds in kind or in coin. That way the Emperor reaps rewards from all those efforts while incurring none of the risk; and likewise the Houses that provide those services succesfully rise in prestige in the eyes of the Emperor.

[Coalition]

The vassalage could work, but in a form where the Emperor appoints a vassal to organize the selected area. The vassal may (and will quite often) use their house's resources to work on the area, and skim a little off the top. But if there are enough complaints the Emperor will strip the vassal of their title (massive honor penalty), and take sufficient resources to repair the situation from the House. The other Houses won't interfere because the Emperor could accuse them of collaboration, but also because they could have been wronged by the vassal.

By appointing a person to the office (rather than assigning it to their House) it ties them closer to the Emperor, as if they are not loyal they will be stripped of their title, and handed to another (less honor loss, but still annoying). If the Emperor assigns too much of the basic day to day stuff to the Houses, he will soon learn there is nothing left. But the Emperor also has to balance keeping too much power to himself, as it will keep him too busy to rule.