How to fight the Borg

[Sonic Glitch]

In general the idea of shooting at one specific point on a Borg ship to make it blow up is nonsense.

Indeed. We also have to remember that Borg ships are quite non-standard in their arrangement, and it's probably possible that each cube is configured slightly differently (over time as it encounters different things it may reshape itself closer to maximum efficiency or "perfection"). Starfleet probably doesn't have much accurate data on what the inside of a cube looks like -- Voyager is still on the other side of the galaxy (was contact w/ Voyager made before or after FC?) and Picards data is 6 years out of date -- so while it may not have appeared to be a vital area to Data or the other Fed officer, it's still possible that it was. Between the Borg voices and Picards "trust me data" always implied to me that he knew something we didn't -- tho that could have been Picard keeping up appearances for the crew

[Tyyr]

I'm going by the first good description we've got of them in which Data lays it out that they're highly distributed and there are no concentrated engines, sensors, or weapons.

[kostmayer]

Shelby stated in Best of Both Worlds that Starfleet estimated a Borg ship could continue to function even in 78 (or 70 to 80 - can't quite make it out) percent of it was inoperable.

With Borg nanites as dangerous as they are, you'd probably have to incinerate what was left of a destroyed ship anyways.

Would an energy dampening weapon as employed by the Breen be effective? If you could manage to neutralise the entire ship in one blast, would that not prevent the Borg from being able to adapt to it?

[Captain Seafort]

Shelby stated in Best of Both Worlds that Starfleet estimated a Borg ship could continue to function even in 78 (or 70 to 80 - can't quite make it out) percent of it was inoperable.

She was wrong - the cube in FC didn't suffer anything close to that much damage before it blew.

[kostmayer]

Shelby stated in Best of Both Worlds that Starfleet estimated a Borg ship could continue to function even in 78 (or 70 to 80 - can't quite make it out) percent of it was inoperable.

She was wrong - the cube in FC didn't suffer anything close to that much damage before it blew.

Which is why I think it was something specific to the area the ships fired on that destroyed the ship, rather then just concentrating the ships fire on a random spot.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Shelby stated in Best of Both Worlds that Starfleet estimated a Borg ship could continue to function even in 78 (or 70 to 80 - can't quite make it out) percent of it was inoperable.

She was wrong - the cube in FC didn't suffer anything close to that much damage before it blew.

Or it is proof that Picard hit a nerve to begin with.

edit: ninja'd!

[kostmayer]

No proof really, tis all speculation.

What would have happened had Picard been leading the fight from the beginning.

[Captain Seafort]

Which is why I think it was something specific to the area the ships fired on that destroyed the ship, rather then just concentrating the ships fire on a random spot.

Why? As I've pointed out already, there's no evidence that Picard was getting detailed tactical information off the Borg, and no evidence that that area of the ship was in any way interesting - it was simply a convenient point to focus on.

Shelby was making an assessment based on very limited data - it's no different from her guessing that the cube could have withstood the entire Fed fleet for 45 minutes - without additional data it would still just have been an educated guess.

[Mikey]

#1 - OK, I'm going to clarify: I don't care if it is chemical-explosion propulsion, rocket motors, or rail gun; the whole point of me saying mass-driver was to postulate a weapon that deals damage by impact as an adjunct to the already-extant directed-energy weapons and torps. I.e., I am expanding on GK's idea - instead of just having as many different types of typical contemporary weapons available with which to attack a Borg ship, why not have as many different types of damage causation? Directed-energy, M/AM warheads, massive slugs... hell, throw in a couple nukes. If it furthers the cause of keeping the Borg on their heels as far as their ability to adapt to attacks, strap Atomic Annie to the bridge deck.

#2 - I don't think the Borg in FC blew up specifically because of the location at which Picard ordered the concentration of fire - as Tyyr said, that would be nonsensical because the damage seemed to not be too deep into the structure of the ship. Rather, I believe it was simply a way to exploit an already-damaged area... which makes eminent sense.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Why? As I've pointed out already, there's no evidence that Picard was getting detailed tactical information off the Borg, and no evidence that that area of the ship was in any way interesting - it was simply a convenient point to focus on.

Define what you qualify "evidence". He clearly was hearing something. And stated that he knew what he was doing. While there isn't evidence to actually state he heard about a weakness in the ship's structure, gathered evidence so far strongly point in that direction.

[Mikey]

No, the evidence is that he heard something in his head, AND he directed the fleet to fire at a particular spot. There is no evidence for a causal relationship between those facts. Further, it makes simple sense that an experienced commander would direct the fleet to concentrate fire on an already-damaged location, especially when firing on other locations on the cube was doing sweet F.A. That's simple tactical sense a/o experience... no supernatural message from the Borg "How to Beat Us" database required.

[Captain Seafort]

Beat me to it. Note also that later on, when he was still "hearing" the collective, he needed to disable a Borg and have a look at its hard drive to realise that they intended to modify the deflector dish into a long-range beacon.

[kostmayer]

No, the evidence is that he heard something in his head, AND he directed the fleet to fire at a particular spot. There is no evidence for a causal relationship between those facts. Further, it makes simple sense that an experienced commander would direct the fleet to concentrate fire on an already-damaged location, especially when firing on other locations on the cube was doing sweet F.A. That's simple tactical sense a/o experience... no supernatural message from the Borg "How to Beat Us" database required.

Then why had no one else done it during the Battle? I need to rewatch the scene, but I can't believe that no other part of the Borg ship had recieved the same amount of concentrated damage as those last few ships inflicted on the area Picard chose.

[Captain Seafort]

Then why had no one else done it during the Battle?

Kost, you're one of the old guard - you've been around here long enough to know the answer to that question.

Because Starfleet is fucking stupid.

[kostmayer]

Then why had no one else done it during the Battle?

Kost, you're one of the old guard - you've been around here long enough to know the answer to that question.

Because Starfleet is f***ing stupid.

And Admirals doubly so, true true When did I become one of the old guard? I come on herre to get away from being a frigging grown up.