Klingon/Federation Alliance

[SolkaTruesilver]

Have we ever seen the Klingon come to the help of the Federation outside of mere single-ship engagement, seeing their alliance? The Federation/Cardassian war apparently have been very hard on the Federation, do we know if Klingons intervened?

I mean.. the alliance lasted for quite some years. The Federation have been in multitude conflicts during that time (Tholians, Cardassians, etc..), do you think the Klingons were happy to have a reason to fight on the Federation's behalf? Or they just stayed put?

I would have totally seen the Weakly Federation using the Klingons like the Vorta use the Jem'Hadar, albeit less aggressively. "Don't attack us, or those big guys are gonna come and punch you through your head".

[Sionnach Glic]

Being allies doesn't necessarily mean fighting another nation's wars. In fact, given their historicaly animosity I'd imagine that the Klingons would be more than happy to see the Federation bleed itself dry fighting heaps of small border skirmishes. I doubt the Klingons ever actively got involved in any of the Federation's wars unless it was in their own interests to do so.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Being allies doesn't necessarily mean fighting another nation's wars.

Actually, it means exactly that. The point of an alliance is to assure self-defense. The Klingon clearly expected the Federation to join their side during the Invasion of Cardassia, or at least, provide use of their Starbases for supply and shore leave. Repudiating your ally's military venture ended up with a breakdown of the Alliance.

Now, if the UFP is drawn in a war against Cardassia, isn't logical to expect for some assistance from your allies in the case you ask?

[Sionnach Glic]

Actually, it means exactly that.

al·li·ance   /əˈlaɪəns/ Show Spelled[uh-lahy-uhns] Show IPA
-noun
1. the act of allying or state of being allied.
2. a formal agreement or treaty between two or more nations to cooperate for specific purposes.
3. a merging of efforts or interests by persons, families, states, or organizations: an alliance between church and state.
4. the persons or entities so allied.
5. marriage or the relationship created by marriage between the families of the bride and bridegroom.
6. correspondence in basic characteristics; affinity: the alliance between logic and metaphysics.

An alliance can indeed be formed for the purpose of fighting a war (IE, WW2, the Dominion War), but it doesn't necessarily have to be formed for that purpose alone. Or would you claim I would be incorrect were I to state that Britain and the US were allies in, say, the year 2000?

[Captain Seafort]

An alliance can indeed be formed for the purpose of fighting a war (IE, WW2, the Dominion War), but it doesn't necessarily have to be formed for that purpose alone. Or would you claim I would be incorrect were I to state that Britain and the US were allies in, say, the year 2000?

Or, for that matter, between 1965 and 1972.

[SolkaTruesilver]

An alliance can indeed be formed for the purpose of fighting a war (IE, WW2, the Dominion War), but it doesn't necessarily have to be formed for that purpose alone. Or would you claim I would be incorrect were I to state that Britain and the US were allies in, say, the year 2000?

Or, for that matter, between 1965 and 1972.

Well, since we are all part of NATO, yes, we are all allies. It's a mutual defense pact.

[Captain Seafort]

Well, since we are all part of NATO, yes, we are all allies. It's a mutual defense pact.

There you go then - being allies does not mean we automatically get involved in each other's wars.

[Mark]

Feds called for help at Wolf 359, Klingons responded.

We don't know that the Klingons didn't aid Starfleet in the Tholian or first Cardassian conflict either. There was never anything mentioned.

Its entirely possible (likely even) that since the threat wasn't serious enough, they never invoked the mutual defense treaty.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Well, since we are all part of NATO, yes, we are all allies. It's a mutual defense pact.

There you go then - being allies does not mean we automatically get involved in each other's wars.

But the Klingon did bring up the treaty when they invaded Cardassia, as they expected it to be honored.

[McAvoy]

That is true. Maybe they have to ask for them to join.

Perhaps the Feds thought they had it under control? Didn't want the Klingons to go bloodthirsty on the Cardassians fearing that they these skirmishes would become a total war. I mean the Cardassians seemed to be inferior to even the Feds in DS9. Having the Klingons join in the 2350's would have been overkill.

Or... maybe the Klingons had their own little wars to deal with at the time.

[Deepcrush]

Remember that the USA and UK were allies during the Falkland Conflict but the USN didn't go rushing down there.

Being allies only means you help if your allies ask you for it or if you offer it, there's no requirement of it.

[Tyyr]

Do we know the terms of the alliance at all? In NATO's case its concerned with the defense of Europe and the North Atlantic. When the US kicked over a hornets nest in Vietnam none of the NATO signatories had to help. The treaty/alliance didn't cover that.

[Deepcrush]

Do we know the terms of the alliance at all? In NATO's case its concerned with the defense of Europe and the North Atlantic. When the US kicked over a hornets nest in Vietnam none of the NATO signatories had to help. The treaty/alliance didn't cover that.

The alliance is most likely just like any other. An agreement not to attack each other and maybe help each other if one side asks and the other agrees.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Do we know the terms of the alliance at all? In NATO's case its concerned with the defense of Europe and the North Atlantic. When the US kicked over a hornets nest in Vietnam none of the NATO signatories had to help. The treaty/alliance didn't cover that.

It's a defensive alliance. Meaning that if any nation of NATO is attacked, all the allied countries have to immediately declare war on the aggressor.

But some of the closest allies of NATO also cooperate for some U.N.-sanctionned offensive warfare. Case in point: Afghan war.

[Captain Seafort]

It's a defensive alliance. Meaning that if any nation of NATO is attacked, all the allied countries have to immediately declare war on the aggressor.

Not quite:

The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

In other words, out-of-area attack don't count and the attacked party decides what measures are required, which includes a) doing nothing, and b) handling the problem themselves.