Telepaths Gone Berserk!!!

Trek Books, Games and General chat
Captain Picard's Hair
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 4042
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:58 am
Location: Right here.

Telepaths Gone Berserk!!!

Post by Captain Picard's Hair »

I just had a curious thought: suppose that in a race of telepaths (take Betazoids) one develops a serious mental illness like the Betazed equiavlent of schizophrenia or somesuch. Since the others of his/her race would be exposed to the disordered thoughts of the crazy nutter, is it possible that they too could be affected by it? I suppose it's open to speculation how exposure to the thoughts even of mentally healthy others around you would affect one, but this special case is particularly interesting to consider. :P
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wonderous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross... but it's not for the timid." Q, Q Who
User avatar
Deepcrush
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 18917
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:15 pm
Location: Arnold, Maryland, USA

Re: Telepaths Gone Berserk!!!

Post by Deepcrush »

Kill them.
Jinsei wa cho no yume, shi no tsubasa no bitodesu
Sionnach Glic
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 26014
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:58 pm
Location: Poblacht na hÉireann, Baile Átha Cliath

Re: Telepaths Gone Berserk!!!

Post by Sionnach Glic »

I'm somewhat more curious about how someone with (as in your example) schizophrenia would react to being exposed to the thoughts of millions of normal people.
"You've all been selected for this mission because you each have a special skill. Professor Hawking, John Leslie, Phil Neville, the Wu-Tang Clan, Usher, the Sugar Puffs Monster and Daniel Day-Lewis! Welcome to Operation MindFuck!"
User avatar
Lighthawk
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 4632
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 7:55 pm
Location: Missouri, USA, North America, Earth, Sol System, Orion Arm, Milkyway Galaxy, Local Group, Universe

Re: Telepaths Gone Berserk!!!

Post by Lighthawk »

Didn't Voyager (yeah, I know) touch on this? There was that episode where Torres got arrested on a planet of telepaths because her violent thoughts got into some woman's head and caused to her to murder someone.
Image
Atekimogus
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 1193
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:10 pm
Location: Vienna

Re: Telepaths Gone Berserk!!!

Post by Atekimogus »

And why would someone do that? I suppose hearing someone telepathically isn't any different than hearing someone with your ear, eg you still know that those thoughts, voices are not your own. Therefore I see no reason why anyone would act upon the crazy mutherings of some mad telepath (or crazy Torres).

The most likely thing is that they just would react like any normal person, meaning first they would send back a heartily shut up and then blend it out somehow. Not to unlikely that in a society of telepath the learned to do just that, otherwise the whole species would probably went crazy if they couldn't decicde from whom they receive messages.
I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite store on the Citadel.
User avatar
Captain Seafort
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 15548
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Telepaths Gone Berserk!!!

Post by Captain Seafort »

Lighthawk wrote:Didn't Voyager (yeah, I know) touch on this? There was that episode where Torres got arrested on a planet of telepaths because her violent thoughts got into some woman's head and caused to her to murder someone.
That thought didn't get into said individual's head through normal telepathy, but because it was being used as technological telepathic crack.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
Tsukiyumi
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 21747
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Forward Torpedo Tube Twenty. Help!
Contact:

Re: Telepaths Gone Berserk!!!

Post by Tsukiyumi »

Captain Seafort wrote:...technological telepathic crack.
And, I have a new album title. :)
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
User avatar
Lighthawk
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 4632
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 7:55 pm
Location: Missouri, USA, North America, Earth, Sol System, Orion Arm, Milkyway Galaxy, Local Group, Universe

Re: Telepaths Gone Berserk!!!

Post by Lighthawk »

Captain Seafort wrote:
Lighthawk wrote:Didn't Voyager (yeah, I know) touch on this? There was that episode where Torres got arrested on a planet of telepaths because her violent thoughts got into some woman's head and caused to her to murder someone.
That thought didn't get into said individual's head through normal telepathy, but because it was being used as technological telepathic crack.
Actually I think it did. It's been a while, but I believe the series of events was one of the telepathic crack users bumped into Torres on purpose to make her mad, however briefly, for his own use. However the woman who committed the murder was merely a bystander. She was shopping, the shop keep dropped something, and the woman went suddenly pyscho about it, grabbed a knife, and shanked em.
Image
Tyyr
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
Posts: 10654
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:49 pm
Location: Jeri Ryan's Dressing Room, Shhhhh

Re: Telepaths Gone Berserk!!!

Post by Tyyr »

Yeah, that was the "mystery", the woman who did it had no connection.

I'm still kinda iffy on how you'd even begin to cope with having everyone else's thoughts in your head.
User avatar
Reliant121
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
Posts: 12263
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:00 pm

Re: Telepaths Gone Berserk!!!

Post by Reliant121 »

From what I remember, the man bumped into Torres to get the emotion, which he transferred to his mind. Then, the violent thought was shared among the psychological "black market" and the women reacted out of hand to it.
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 35635
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:04 am
Commendations: The Daystrom Award
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Telepaths Gone Berserk!!!

Post by Mikey »

Atekimogus wrote:And why would someone do that? I suppose hearing someone telepathically isn't any different than hearing someone with your ear, eg you still know that those thoughts, voices are not your own. Therefore I see no reason why anyone would act upon the crazy mutherings of some mad telepath (or crazy Torres).

The most likely thing is that they just would react like any normal person, meaning first they would send back a heartily shut up and then blend it out somehow. Not to unlikely that in a society of telepath the learned to do just that, otherwise the whole species would probably went crazy if they couldn't decicde from whom they receive messages.

There's no reason, though, to believe that this is the case. Telepathy could (I'd say probably would) be far more invasive than just hearing thoughts. Certainly it would appear that a telepathic being can insert itself into another's engrams or cognition of memory or sensation - see Nemesis, and that TNG ep with the ESP-rape. Add to that that races like the Betazoids are empathic as well as telepathic, and you're on a slippery slope that leads to far greater intrusiveness than just hearing thoughts.

I'd be interested to think, though, of the reverse effect of that which CPH mentions - would the majority influence of non-disordered individuals have a positive effect on the afflicted individual?
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
Atekimogus
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 1193
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:10 pm
Location: Vienna

Re: Telepaths Gone Berserk!!!

Post by Atekimogus »

Mikey wrote: There's no reason, though, to believe that this is the case. Telepathy could (I'd say probably would) be far more invasive than just hearing thoughts. Certainly it would appear that a telepathic being can insert itself into another's engrams or cognition of memory or sensation - see Nemesis, and that TNG ep with the ESP-rape. Add to that that races like the Betazoids are empathic as well as telepathic, and you're on a slippery slope that leads to far greater intrusiveness than just hearing thoughts.
But wouldn't they still be able to differentiate between their own thoughts/feelings and somebody elses? I would say thats pretty essential otherwise all of them are very open to manipulation. If a telepathic species had no way of dealing with those intrusive methods I find it hard to believe that they are able to deal with anyone who doesn't belong to their species.

Betazoids are a nice example, sure they are empathic but it seems to be an ability they can turn on and off. Troi was rather stable and not constantly affected by the feelings of 1000+ people, she was more governed by her own moods. (granted with exeptions from super-alien xy of the week).

So all instances where we have a a "I didn't want to, the telepath made me do it" or vice versa scenario I think that it wouldn't work that way. But I readily admit that I do not particullary like telepath episodes. Most of the time it is just people makine funny faces to explain a weak plot.
I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite store on the Citadel.
User avatar
Reliant121
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
Posts: 12263
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:00 pm

Re: Telepaths Gone Berserk!!!

Post by Reliant121 »

I like WH40K handles telepaths. Inherently unstable maniacs that, in human terms, often have to be shaped or "bent" to harness their powers. Sorta like forging a sword.

And even then, they are both respected for their power and feared for the same reason.
Sionnach Glic
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 26014
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:58 pm
Location: Poblacht na hÉireann, Baile Átha Cliath

Re: Telepaths Gone Berserk!!!

Post by Sionnach Glic »

Atekimogus wrote:
Mikey wrote: There's no reason, though, to believe that this is the case. Telepathy could (I'd say probably would) be far more invasive than just hearing thoughts. Certainly it would appear that a telepathic being can insert itself into another's engrams or cognition of memory or sensation - see Nemesis, and that TNG ep with the ESP-rape. Add to that that races like the Betazoids are empathic as well as telepathic, and you're on a slippery slope that leads to far greater intrusiveness than just hearing thoughts.
But wouldn't they still be able to differentiate between their own thoughts/feelings and somebody elses? I would say thats pretty essential otherwise all of them are very open to manipulation. If a telepathic species had no way of dealing with those intrusive methods I find it hard to believe that they are able to deal with anyone who doesn't belong to their species.

Betazoids are a nice example, sure they are empathic but it seems to be an ability they can turn on and off. Troi was rather stable and not constantly affected by the feelings of 1000+ people, she was more governed by her own moods. (granted with exeptions from super-alien xy of the week).

So all instances where we have a a "I didn't want to, the telepath made me do it" or vice versa scenario I think that it wouldn't work that way. But I readily admit that I do not particullary like telepath episodes. Most of the time it is just people makine funny faces to explain a weak plot.
Keep in mind, this thread is assuming the telepath in question has some sort of mental illness. In such a case there's no reason to believe that they'd be able to tell the difference between their own thoughts and someone else's. Indeed, that would undoubtedly be a very common mental illness in such a society.
"You've all been selected for this mission because you each have a special skill. Professor Hawking, John Leslie, Phil Neville, the Wu-Tang Clan, Usher, the Sugar Puffs Monster and Daniel Day-Lewis! Welcome to Operation MindFuck!"
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 35635
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:04 am
Commendations: The Daystrom Award
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Telepaths Gone Berserk!!!

Post by Mikey »

Atekimogus wrote:
Mikey wrote: There's no reason, though, to believe that this is the case. Telepathy could (I'd say probably would) be far more invasive than just hearing thoughts. Certainly it would appear that a telepathic being can insert itself into another's engrams or cognition of memory or sensation - see Nemesis, and that TNG ep with the ESP-rape. Add to that that races like the Betazoids are empathic as well as telepathic, and you're on a slippery slope that leads to far greater intrusiveness than just hearing thoughts.
But wouldn't they still be able to differentiate between their own thoughts/feelings and somebody elses? I would say thats pretty essential otherwise all of them are very open to manipulation. If a telepathic species had no way of dealing with those intrusive methods I find it hard to believe that they are able to deal with anyone who doesn't belong to their species.

Betazoids are a nice example, sure they are empathic but it seems to be an ability they can turn on and off. Troi was rather stable and not constantly affected by the feelings of 1000+ people, she was more governed by her own moods. (granted with exeptions from super-alien xy of the week).

So all instances where we have a a "I didn't want to, the telepath made me do it" or vice versa scenario I think that it wouldn't work that way. But I readily admit that I do not particullary like telepath episodes. Most of the time it is just people makine funny faces to explain a weak plot.
Sure, they probably would be able to differentiate between their own thoughts and someone else's. So what? One of us humans who has a mental disorder that can be traced to a particular traumatic event isn't constantly, consciously reliving the event; but the biochemical imbalance and symptomology remain, even if the memory is currently in the subconscious.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
Post Reply