the Federation Galaxy

[Mr. P.N. Guin]

OK so I was watching Enterprise today and it had the enterprise j and I believe they mention that the Klingons were a part of the Federation. Now that got me to thinking, in Enterprise we see the Vulcans and Andorians etc as separate entities who form the Federation. Throughout TOS and TNG and DS9 we see other races become members of the Federation, and I guess we can assume that the Xindi eventually became members as well. The Klingons go from being enemies to friendlies over the course of a century. Relations improve with the Romulans and the Ferengi, and one can assume the Cardassians after the war. Bajor would go on to join. Odo goes back to the Founders curing them and telling them the good of the Federation.Voyager even manage to make the Federation a fairly respected name in the Delta Quadrant. So I guess is what I'm getting at is it safe to assume that eventually the galaxy could just be a massive Federation with only the Borg to worry about? Now I realize that something on that scale would not happen overnight, but after watching all of trek it almost seems like that would be an eventual outcome. Sure some planets might not join, maybe even the Dominion would keep to itself even with Odo being the leader. But it always seems that most people end up needing the Federation to come bail them out, like the recently decimated Romulans. So it seems only right that the galaxy would become and entire Federation.

[Mikey]

No.

The Founders will always be too xenophobic to join the UFP, even if Odo managed to convince them to be less than antagonistic. In the DQ, I believe VOY pissed off as many people as they impressed, so there's that. Plus, there are cultures who may just be too far ahead of the UFP to want to join... the Voth, the disembodied ghost head people from the Wesley/Traveler TNG ep, perhaps even folks like the Sikarians. Finally, even in the UFP's current sphere of influence, there are minor cultures who have dared come into conflict with the almighty Federation. While the Tholians had ambassadorial relationships witht he UFP by DS9, and one could assume that the Gorn do as well, there are still the Talarians and the Tzenkethi of the galaxy.

[Captain Seafort]

There are also likely to be those who, while being friendly to the Federation and about the same tech level, don't want to be members. It is, after all, a nation-state in it's own right rather than an interstellar UN or Commonwealth.

[BigJKU316]

I would say yes and no. The way I see it the AQ is on its way to becoming a Federation dominated area where everyone else simply is too weak to matter any more. There will be some holdouts but they will matter less and less over time. I think that eventually some of the other powers will try to fight off the Federation, will lose and be absorbed in the process.

The next great conflict will be when the Federation runs into the Dominion a hundred years down the road after more expansion or it runs into someone in the BQ who they don't know is there before hitting the Borg.

[Sionnach Glic]

Who's the say that that UFP will win? It's quite possible that they'll run into an empire that's a step further up on the tech ladder than they are.
The Dominion has a solid hold over the Gamma Quadrant and isn't far behind the UFP in terms of tech. It's quite likely that they will only continue to expand, leaving most of the GQ firmly in their control.
The Delta Quadrant is held mostly by the Borg, with the rest of the quadrant being divided up amongst powers far too weak to really establish any solid hold. Though if the Voth decide to go empire-building there's damn all the UFP could ever do about it.
The Beta Quadrant is mostly unknown.

[Captain Seafort]

The Dominion has a solid hold over the Gamma Quadrant and isn't far behind the UFP in terms of tech. It's quite likely that they will only continue to expand, leaving most of the GQ firmly in their control.

I'd say that the Dominion outclasses the Feds technologically. They've got general-issue humanoid-scale cloaks, their weapons went straight through Fed shields, and their shipbuilding abilities are clearly superior, even when limited to the Cardassian industrial base.

The Delta Quadrant is held mostly by the Borg, with the rest of the quadrant being divided up amongst powers far too weak to really establish any solid hold.

There seem to be at least a few decent-sized powers about, based on those that Voyager never stood a chance of being able to go round - the Krenim and the Devore spring to mind. We never really got enough of a look at them to see if they were Fed-scale.

Though if the Voth decide to go empire-building there's damn all the UFP could ever do about it.

If the Voth went empire-building, there's damn-all anyone short of the Borg could do about it.

[Graham Kennedy]

I think it's inevitable that the UFP will eventually encompass almost the entire galaxy.

Put simply, if there's one message of the Star Trek franchise it is "varied and diverse species and individuals working together with mutual respect for a common cause is a philosophy which can overcome any obstacle in the end". The whole point of the show is that the Federation's values and ways of doing things are the best. SO yeah, they'll absorb the Klingons, and the Romulans, and the Cardassians, and the Dominion. The only people they won't absorb are the primitive caveman types who aren't ready for it yet, then the Organian/Q types who are more powerful still.

[Sionnach Glic]

I'd argue that even the Borg would have problems dealing with the Voth. They were pretty damn uber.

I'd say that the Dominion outclasses the Feds technologically. They've got general-issue humanoid-scale cloaks, their weapons went straight through Fed shields, and their shipbuilding abilities are clearly superior, even when limited to the Cardassian industrial base.

Fair points. It's been far too long since I've seen DS9. Though weren't the cloaks a natural ability of the Jem'hadar?

There seem to be at least a few decent-sized powers about, based on those that Voyager never stood a chance of being able to go round - the Krenim and the Devore spring to mind. We never really got enough of a look at them to see if they were Fed-scale.

I'd class the Krenim as being superior to the UFP, but they were wiped out when the timeship was destroyed, correct?
Can't remember who the Devore were.

[Captain Seafort]

I'd argue that even the Borg would have problems dealing with the Voth. They were pretty damn uber.

No questions there - that ship of theirs was little more than a GSV rip-off. The issue is that while the Borg would have problems dealing with them, everyone else would be a speed bump.

Though weren't the cloaks a natural ability of the Jem'hadar?

I'm not sure, possibly, although they would obviously still count as Dominion tech, albeit bio-tech rather than hardware.

they were wiped out when the timeship was destroyed, correct?

Nope - the timeship's destruction simply removed it's effects, which included it's original inadvertent destruction of the Krenim. Voyager met one of the heavy-version warships at the end of the episode, and agreed to go the long way round.

Can't remember who the Devore were.

The anti-telepath bunch from Counterpoint

[Tyyr]

GSV?

[Sionnach Glic]

General Systems Vehicle

No questions there - that ship of theirs was little more than a GSV rip-off. The issue is that while the Borg would have problems dealing with them, everyone else would be a speed bump.

GSV wannabe, I think you mean.

I see what you mean.

Nope - the timeship's destruction simply removed it's effects, which included it's original inadvertent destruction of the Krenim. Voyager met one of the heavy-version warships at the end of the episode, and agreed to go the long way round.

Ah, okay.

The anti-telepath bunch from Counterpoint

Aye, I remember them now.

[BigJKU316]

Who's the say that that UFP will win? It's quite possible that they'll run into an empire that's a step further up on the tech ladder than they are.
The Dominion has a solid hold over the Gamma Quadrant and isn't far behind the UFP in terms of tech. It's quite likely that they will only continue to expand, leaving most of the GQ firmly in their control.
The Delta Quadrant is held mostly by the Borg, with the rest of the quadrant being divided up amongst powers far too weak to really establish any solid hold. Though if the Voth decide to go empire-building there's damn all the UFP could ever do about it.
The Beta Quadrant is mostly unknown.

I agree, the Beta Quadrant is a great unknown. I was speaking towards the known powers in the AQ region. Namely the Cardassians, Romulans and Klingons. I don't think any of them are going to hold out long, even if Romulus is not destroyed in nonsensical fashion.

That leaves the Breen, Tholians, Gorn and a scattering of others in the immediate area. We don't know much about them but I just don't see it, unless everyone gangs up on the Feds. That leaves what I think we agree with. The next great challenge is an unkown in the Beta Quadrant or somewhere between the Federation and Dominion in the unexplored portions of the AQ.

Frankly I think the direction the series should go if they ever revive it in the DS9 timeline. It is more interesting when they are out among the great unknowns and the only way to really get to that point is to have the Fed's absorb/massively outgrow the powers in their immediate area.

[Captain Seafort]

GSV?

General Systems Vehicle - its from the Culture, and is a cross between a starship and a city. It's also very fast, can transport (in the Trek sense, not the "move" sense) other starships and can fuck up other ship's computers remotely. The Voth ship is a pretty blatant rip-off.

Although, based on what else a GSV can do, SG's got a point.

[Tyyr]

Ah, ok. Wasn't familiar with the term.

[Sionnach Glic]

Fun Fact - The Culture (the nation which constructed the GSVs) is the only universe which we've ever broken the "no vs debates" moratorium for.

Who's the say that that UFP will win? It's quite possible that they'll run into an empire that's a step further up on the tech ladder than they are.
The Dominion has a solid hold over the Gamma Quadrant and isn't far behind the UFP in terms of tech. It's quite likely that they will only continue to expand, leaving most of the GQ firmly in their control.
The Delta Quadrant is held mostly by the Borg, with the rest of the quadrant being divided up amongst powers far too weak to really establish any solid hold. Though if the Voth decide to go empire-building there's damn all the UFP could ever do about it.
The Beta Quadrant is mostly unknown.

I agree, the Beta Quadrant is a great unknown. I was speaking towards the known powers in the AQ region. Namely the Cardassians, Romulans and Klingons. I don't think any of them are going to hold out long, even if Romulus is not destroyed in nonsensical fashion.

That leaves the Breen, Tholians, Gorn and a scattering of others in the immediate area. We don't know much about them but I just don't see it, unless everyone gangs up on the Feds. That leaves what I think we agree with. The next great challenge is an unkown in the Beta Quadrant or somewhere between the Federation and Dominion in the unexplored portions of the AQ.

Frankly I think the direction the series should go if they ever revive it in the DS9 timeline. It is more interesting when they are out among the great unknowns and the only way to really get to that point is to have the Fed's absorb/massively outgrow the powers in their immediate area.

Aye, I can see the AQ becoming effectively controled by the UFP. There'll be a few species (such as the Tholians) who'll refuse membership due to their isolationist and independant tendancies, but they'll be far from major players.