NCC 1701-F

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NCC 1701-F

Post by Atekimogus »

Let us daydream a bit. Suppose they every make a new trek continuing the prime timeline and the setting is on the next enterprise, lets say about 20-30 years in the future. What features would you want for the new flagship. Now you don't need to answer every poll, just to give a few pointers....

Size range)
a) Constitution (~300m)
b) Excelsior-Sovereign (420-700 m)
c) Galaxy (~642 m)
d) Warbird (~1200 m)
e) even bigger than that, approaching flying city

Design guideline
a) Grand and elegant like the E-A and E-D
b) Fast slim and streamlined like the Excelsior and Sov
c) Modeled after the Miranda, Nebula, Akira

Power reactor
a) Fusion and M/AM reactor
b) Only M/AM or Fusion reactor
c) Romulan technobabble black hole reactor
d) something completely new

Speed
a) conventional Warp up to 9.9999999999etc.....
b) Warp 10, beeing able to pop up everywhere
c) Transwarp, as seen in "All good things" warp 14, 15, etc

Mission role
a) backbone of the fleet like connies or excelsior
b) exceptional multi-mission-explorer with only a handfull built like the first galaxys
c) dedicated warship
d) dedicated science/hospital ship like oberth or olympus

What about offense/defense? Still the old phaser/torpedo/deflectorshield arrangement or something new? Maybe sensor/combatdrones? What other new cool technical gimmicks? More shuttles? Less shuttles? Captains Yacht? Modular design? Cloaking device?
I am not necessarily interested in things like neutro-quantum-duotritanium ablative armor because it is armor just by another name but what other cool stunts should this ship be able to pull off?
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Re: NCC 1701-F

Post by McAvoy »

Me personally, I'd like to see a ship not much larger than the D or E, somewhat convetional layout but elegant. I want to the ship to look purposeful and not designed just to look cool like the E-E.

As far as technology is concerned as long as the ship doesn't have quantum uber multivector phaser plasma turrets or a quantum flux capacitor, I am fine with new technologies.

Mission role has to be similar to the Galaxys though let's avoid installing C-4 all over the consoles and warp core.
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Re: NCC 1701-F

Post by kostmayer »

More shuttles - Danube classes especially.
No Captains Yacht.
A little more function over form.
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Re: NCC 1701-F

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Greater use of holographic technology; the whole ship fitted to support holograms, as with Prometheus. EMHs available along with Engineering, Security, and other equivalents. Holodecks used as easily configurable mission space; push a button and it turns into cargo space, or crew quarters, or additional medical bays, or science labs.

Probably a flatter, sleeker design - that seems to be the way of the future. Faster, but no transwarp or anything like that; top speed Warp 9.99.

Weapons standard phaser arrays and torpedo tubes; no photons, quantum torps as the standard torpedo. Possibly with transphasics, depending on what they actually are.

Larger in size than a Galaxy, but with a smaller crew.

Next generation sensors, science facilities, etc.
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Re: NCC 1701-F

Post by Atekimogus »

GrahamKennedy wrote:Greater use of holographic technology; the whole ship fitted to support holograms, as with Prometheus. EMHs available along with Engineering, Security, and other equivalents. Holodecks used as easily configurable mission space; push a button and it turns into cargo space, or crew quarters, or additional medical bays, or science labs.
The be honest that is more or less exactly what I too first imagined. Large scale use of holo-technology, maybe even on the bridge. Push a butten and your converence-space transforms into a CIC for fleet action etc.

But then I thought.....isn't such large scale holo-use an incredible waste of energy? What happens if you have only a small fluctuation, well I wouldn't want to clean up that cargo deck to be sure. Of course there would be backups for backups for backups just as for the warpcore who would still explode from time to time...... .

What about the EMH and later the ECH? Why not make a whole crew out of holo-figures? So even if the use of more holo-tech was also my first thought I think this is not a trend I would like to follow. More small and smart and less obvious uses for holo-tech, for example making good use of holodecks for scientific simulations, training purposes etc. but overall less use for recreation and holo-deck episodes.
GrahamKennedy wrote:Probably a flatter, sleeker design - that seems to be the way of the future. Faster, but no transwarp or anything like that; top speed Warp 9.99.
Neck-section or not? Sure it doesn't make a lot of sense but for me it is one of the features setting those ships apart from the rest of generic sci-fi ships:), so just asking. Well, still not broken the barrier I see. A specific reason? Even if we ignore the stupid warp 10 shuttle voy episode I did have the impression that they are not far from it.
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Re: NCC 1701-F

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Atekimogus wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote:Greater use of holographic technology; the whole ship fitted to support holograms, as with Prometheus. EMHs available along with Engineering, Security, and other equivalents. Holodecks used as easily configurable mission space; push a button and it turns into cargo space, or crew quarters, or additional medical bays, or science labs.
The be honest that is more or less exactly what I too first imagined. Large scale use of holo-technology, maybe even on the bridge. Push a butten and your converence-space transforms into a CIC for fleet action etc.

But then I thought.....isn't such large scale holo-use an incredible waste of energy? What happens if you have only a small fluctuation, well I wouldn't want to clean up that cargo deck to be sure. Of course there would be backups for backups for backups just as for the warpcore who would still explode from time to time...... .
I would think that a greater power generation capacity would be a basic element of the next generation of ships.
What about the EMH and later the ECH? Why not make a whole crew out of holo-figures? So even if the use of more holo-tech was also my first thought I think this is not a trend I would like to follow. More small and smart and less obvious uses for holo-tech, for example making good use of holodecks for scientific simulations, training purposes etc. but overall less use for recreation and holo-deck episodes.
The ultimate scenario is a ship which is basically one giant holodeck, so you con configure the interior any way you please, and crewed entirely with a holographic crew.

But Starfleet isn't there yet. Holographic environments are too unstable; we saw in the Fair Haven one that even running one for a long time can damage it, and there are ample cases of holodecks going wrong in TNG, DS9 and Voy. I would say that a ship built as the E-F would have to have all the basic systems; engines, power generation, computers, life support, bridge, weapons - all of these would need to be the standard real physical deal. But on top of that you could have holo-space that would be mission specific, so on a science mission you suddenly get ten more science labs. Next week you respond to a disaster and they become ten more sickbays. The week after they are ten more cargo holds. And so on.

It lets you very quickly optimise your ship for any particular role, whilst at the same time if the holotech fails, you still have a solid old fashioned ship to fall back on.
GrahamKennedy wrote:Neck-section or not? Sure it doesn't make a lot of sense but for me it is one of the features setting those ships apart from the rest of generic sci-fi ships:), so just asking. Well, still not broken the barrier I see. A specific reason? Even if we ignore the stupid warp 10 shuttle voy episode I did have the impression that they are not far from it.
No neck, I would think. Blended hull form like the Sovereign/Prometheus, but more so perhaps.

As for transwarp, as much because the writers don't seem to want it as anything else. If it were me I'd have it, and give galaxy-wide travel times of a few days. But the powers that be seem to think that would kill storytelling potential.
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Re: NCC 1701-F

Post by Atekimogus »

GrahamKennedy wrote:The ultimate scenario is a ship which is basically one giant holodeck, so you con configure the interior any way you please, and crewed entirely with a holographic crew.
The horror, I thought star trek is about the "human" experience. :wink:
GrahamKennedy wrote:.....science mission you suddenly get ten more science labs. Next week you respond to a disaster and they become ten more sickbays. The week after they are ten more cargo holds. And so on.
Ok, I can imagine cargo-holds, sickbays to a degree and the use of holodecks for simulations but whole science labs? Now I admit I have not really a clue how holographs are supposed to work but could you - for example - use a holographic simulation of a sensor of some sort use to actually scan a real object?
GrahamKennedy wrote:It lets you very quickly optimise your ship for any particular role, whilst at the same time if the holotech fails, you still have a solid old fashioned ship to fall back on.
Agreed
GrahamKennedy wrote:No neck, I would think. Blended hull form like the Sovereign/Prometheus, but more so perhaps.
A shame, but probably true. Not a particular fan of the Prometheus, to much star destroyer for me.....
GrahamKennedy wrote:As for transwarp, as much because the writers don't seem to want it as anything else. If it were me I'd have it, and give galaxy-wide travel times of a few days. But the powers that be seem to think that would kill storytelling potential.
Well I am not sure if I have it correctly but isn't the scale supposed to go like: Warp 9,9999 - Warp 10 (which is infinite speed) - Warp 11 which isnt infinite speed but faster than Warp 9,9999? (Doesn't make much sense to me but I read it somewhere, can't remember where) If so you still would have adequate travel times with warp 11,12 etc... .
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Re: NCC 1701-F

Post by Tyyr »

Atekimogus wrote:Ok, I can imagine cargo-holds, sickbays to a degree and the use of holodecks for simulations but whole science labs? Now I admit I have not really a clue how holographs are supposed to work but could you - for example - use a holographic simulation of a sensor of some sort use to actually scan a real object?
I seem to remember a fanfic with something like that...

We know that the holodeck can replicate objects. People eat in it all the time. There are some instruments that can't be replicated for one reason or another. It's be far simpler to store them all in a room off the side of the lab and bring them in when needed. Replicate everything else. Power intensive but you don't have that big honking warp core because its pretty.
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Re: NCC 1701-F

Post by Atekimogus »

Tyyr wrote: We know that the holodeck can replicate objects. People eat in it all the time. There are some instruments that can't be replicated for one reason or another. It's be far simpler to store them all in a room off the side of the lab and bring them in when needed. Replicate everything else. Power intensive but you don't have that big honking warp core because its pretty.
But if you replicate the desired object (why not) isn't it then a real object not bound by the limitiations of a holodeck, eg. not a hologram?

On the other hand maybe we can combine the two ideas, huge mission specific areas you can more or less change to your needs with the push of a button but instead of a holodeck you'd have huge industrial replicators installed with the bonus that your cargo-space, sickbay etc doesn't disappear if you have a hickup in the power supply.

(Holograms and Replicators in the show kind of work identical (with the first having a few limitations) and I bet noone had an inkling what makes the respective system work...)
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Re: NCC 1701-F

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Atekimogus wrote:Ok, I can imagine cargo-holds, sickbays to a degree and the use of holodecks for simulations but whole science labs? Now I admit I have not really a clue how holographs are supposed to work but could you - for example - use a holographic simulation of a sensor of some sort use to actually scan a real object?
Don't see why not. We know holodecks use replicator technology to create real objects as well as holograms; we see people eat food on holodecks, throw snowballs around, that kind of thing. It might get hard if you want to scan things outside the ship, but even then I could see replicator units on the hull producing custom sensors much as the Exocomps produced custom tools. And certainly I don't see why you couldn't have a holodeck produce a bunch of tricorders or other sensors for use within the deck.
Atekimogus wrote:A shame, but probably true. Not a particular fan of the Prometheus, to much star destroyer for me.....
The only thing that bothers me about it is the splitting concept. If they had gone for a saucer separation with a warp capable saucer I could live with that, but an engineering hull that divides? Don't see the point. In the Trek world, it comes across as a Gimmick that might be useful in some ways (MVAM seems to work fine, no matter what fans argue about it), but is probably far more trouble than it's worth on the whole. And I'd say the same thing from a real world point of view, actually.

If they hadn't gone there, the design itself I like fine. Its hull form works as a successor to the Intrepid, and with four nacelles I buy it as capable of very high sustained speeds. One thing I never liked about the Intrepid was being so fast on those itty bitty little nacelles.
Atekimogus wrote:Well I am not sure if I have it correctly but isn't the scale supposed to go like: Warp 9,9999 - Warp 10 (which is infinite speed) - Warp 11 which isnt infinite speed but faster than Warp 9,9999? (Doesn't make much sense to me but I read it somewhere, can't remember where) If so you still would have adequate travel times with warp 11,12 etc... .
Um, you read it on DITL. It's a pet theory I came up with to accommodate warp 10 being infinite speed and yet have ships going Warp 10+ on occasion. It's not the least bit official.
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Re: NCC 1701-F

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GrahamKennedy wrote: Don't see why not. We know holodecks use replicator technology to create real objects as well as holograms; we see people eat food on holodecks, throw snowballs around, that kind of thing. It might get hard if you want to scan things outside the ship, but even then I could see replicator units on the hull producing custom sensors much as the Exocomps produced custom tools. And certainly I don't see why you couldn't have a holodeck produce a bunch of tricorders or other sensors for use within the deck.
Ok maybe one should clarify something for me. Holograms are supposed to be forcefields with a certain shape and need a holodeck to exist whereas replicated objects are real objects you could theoretically use outside of a holodeck, right? A holodeck works with both systems meaning the enviroment is probably a forcefield but if you order a drink you could take it outside the holodeck and enjoy it elsewhere. So why not eliminate the holo-part and use replicators instead for your proposed applications? (Assuming I am right about holograms.....) I always thought the exocomps also replicated their tools and made not a holographic simulation of them but I admit it has been years since I watched that episode.
GrahamKennedy wrote:One thing I never liked about the Intrepid was being so fast on those itty bitty little nacelles.
There is a great many deal I do not like about the Intrepid (the fat sec. hull, the hunchback, the "saucer") but the little nacelles never bothered me. Wasn't it a trend started with the galaxy class to have comparatively smaller nacelles to illustrate the advancement in technology and therefore the Intrepid beeing the next logical step? (I guess the concept would still apply if not for the sovereign suddenly having huge nacelles again)
GrahamKennedy wrote:Um, you read it on DITL. It's a pet theory I came up with to accommodate warp 10 being infinite speed and yet have ships going Warp 10+ on occasion. It's not the least bit official.
Lol, ok quite possible :lol: . Well since I asked what nice gimmicks the next enterprise should have in "your" opinion it would have been perfectly ok to say:"I wish they would forget about the stupid warp 10 episode and having the ship travel at a new maximum warp of 13,4 similar to the All good things Enterprise." for example. :wink:
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Re: NCC 1701-F

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GrahamKennedy wrote:
Atekimogus wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote:Greater use of holographic technology; the whole ship fitted to support holograms, as with Prometheus. EMHs available along with Engineering, Security, and other equivalents. Holodecks used as easily configurable mission space; push a button and it turns into cargo space, or crew quarters, or additional medical bays, or science labs.
The be honest that is more or less exactly what I too first imagined. Large scale use of holo-technology, maybe even on the bridge. Push a butten and your converence-space transforms into a CIC for fleet action etc.

But then I thought.....isn't such large scale holo-use an incredible waste of energy? What happens if you have only a small fluctuation, well I wouldn't want to clean up that cargo deck to be sure. Of course there would be backups for backups for backups just as for the warpcore who would still explode from time to time...... .
I would think that a greater power generation capacity would be a basic element of the next generation of ships.
Why?

Federation ships run of M/AM reaction, and considering the amount of energy produced it would seem they harness the vast majority of it ( 99.999999999% ) thus the only way to get more energy is to make a bigger core burning more fuel. And bigger cores certainly seem to be more unstable (Galaxy).
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Re: NCC 1701-F

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Atekimogus wrote:Ok maybe one should clarify something for me. Holograms are supposed to be forcefields with a certain shape and need a holodeck to exist whereas replicated objects are real objects you could theoretically use outside of a holodeck, right? A holodeck works with both systems meaning the enviroment is probably a forcefield but if you order a drink you could take it outside the holodeck and enjoy it elsewhere. So why not eliminate the holo-part and use replicators instead for your proposed applications? (Assuming I am right about holograms.....) I always thought the exocomps also replicated their tools and made not a holographic simulation of them but I admit it has been years since I watched that episode.
They replicate them. Replicators are an integral part of the holodeck. A lot of things can be done with force fields and light projection but when people do things like eat, toss something as complex as a snowball at someone, etc. you replicate it. So when saying use a holodeck for a science lab there's no real contradiction. You'd still do what's always been done, force fields and light for things that can be done with that like tables, chairs, computer displays, etc. and replicate the replicable instruments and pull out of storage those that can't be replicated.
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Re: NCC 1701-F

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Teaos wrote:Federation ships run of M/AM reaction, and considering the amount of energy produced it would seem they harness the vast majority of it ( 99.999999999% )
They're not that efficient - more like mid-90s. (93-95% in "Allegiance", a hair over 97% in "Force of Nature")
And bigger cores certainly seem to be more unstable (Galaxy).
That I entirely agree with.
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Re: NCC 1701-F

Post by Mark »

With the Romulan Empire collapsed, you'd figure the Treaty of Algeron to be gone. So, I'd like to it eqipped with a phase cloak device. It would only make sense from that point on.

A new experimental weapons system as well. Something that plot power could be directed too, but causes problems as well.

And of course, MVAM
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