Civilian Ships

Trek Books, Games and General chat
stitch626
2 Star Admiral
2 Star Admiral
Posts: 9585
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:57 pm
Location: NY
Contact:

Re: Civilian Ships

Post by stitch626 »

Tyyr wrote:The Mark 1 was British, the A7V was German. The first two major tanks to see combat.
Ah, I figured they were from major powers, just wasn't sure which ones.

The Polish tanks were seriously below that, one having 3-7 mm of armour.
BTW, does the - mean that the numbers are an average over the entire body of the vehicle? Or that it varied on different ones?
No trees were killed in transmission of this message. However, some electrons were mildly inconvenienced.
Tyyr
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
Posts: 10654
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:49 pm
Location: Jeri Ryan's Dressing Room, Shhhhh

Re: Civilian Ships

Post by Tyyr »

1) You're going to have to link to some info on this supposed tank. Everything I can find on early Polish tanks and armored cars is Post WWI and 8mm is the thinnest armor I'm finding.
2) When armor values are listed for most vehicles the numbers are provided in a format such as 6-12mm (for the Mark I) which indicates the thinnest and thickest armor on the vehicle.
stitch626
2 Star Admiral
2 Star Admiral
Posts: 9585
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:57 pm
Location: NY
Contact:

Re: Civilian Ships

Post by stitch626 »

No trees were killed in transmission of this message. However, some electrons were mildly inconvenienced.
Tyyr
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
Posts: 10654
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:49 pm
Location: Jeri Ryan's Dressing Room, Shhhhh

Re: Civilian Ships

Post by Tyyr »

From the 30's? That's not even close to qualifying as one of the first tanks.
Sionnach Glic
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 26014
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:58 pm
Location: Poblacht na hÉireann, Baile Átha Cliath

Re: Civilian Ships

Post by Sionnach Glic »

It was also a tankette, not a proper battle tank. That'd be like saying that the US's modern tank armour sucks and citing the Stryker as proof.
"You've all been selected for this mission because you each have a special skill. Professor Hawking, John Leslie, Phil Neville, the Wu-Tang Clan, Usher, the Sugar Puffs Monster and Daniel Day-Lewis! Welcome to Operation MindFuck!"
User avatar
Captain Seafort
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 15548
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Civilian Ships

Post by Captain Seafort »

Sionnach Glic wrote:It was also a tankette, not a proper battle tank. That'd be like saying that the US's modern tank armour sucks and citing the Stryker as proof.
It's more like saying that modern US tanks are crap and citing some Indian armoured car as proof.

As for this:
And most early Polish tanks had the same armour strength as a modern "armoured" car.
Bullshit. Modern "armoured cars" can take multiple RPG hits - an early tank, let alone a tankette, would be ripped open by one.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 35635
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:04 am
Commendations: The Daystrom Award
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Civilian Ships

Post by Mikey »

We are talking about an example built by the same people that attempted to stop panzers with cavalry sabers, right?
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
User avatar
Captain Seafort
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 15548
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Civilian Ships

Post by Captain Seafort »

Mikey wrote:We are talking about an example built by the same people that attempted to stop panzers with cavalry sabers, right?
Not quite - that particular story came from conflating Blitzkrieg with a occasion when a Polish cavalry unit (lancers, not sabre-armed) charged a German infantry battalion and won.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 35635
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:04 am
Commendations: The Daystrom Award
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Civilian Ships

Post by Mikey »

Ah. A bit of an urban... er, rural... legend, then?
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
Sionnach Glic
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 26014
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:58 pm
Location: Poblacht na hÉireann, Baile Átha Cliath

Re: Civilian Ships

Post by Sionnach Glic »

It's based on a misunderstanding. The Polish unit in question was cavalry-based....but only used the horses to get from place to place, as they lacked sufficient vehicles. They didn't charge the tanks on the horses, they dismounted and engaged the enemy as infantry.
"You've all been selected for this mission because you each have a special skill. Professor Hawking, John Leslie, Phil Neville, the Wu-Tang Clan, Usher, the Sugar Puffs Monster and Daniel Day-Lewis! Welcome to Operation MindFuck!"
stitch626
2 Star Admiral
2 Star Admiral
Posts: 9585
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:57 pm
Location: NY
Contact:

Re: Civilian Ships

Post by stitch626 »

Seafort, what armoured cars are you referring to (serious question)? Because the ones around here (as in locally) can barely hold off bullets form a high powered rifle. Hence the "".


As for the rest, I'll just drop it.
No trees were killed in transmission of this message. However, some electrons were mildly inconvenienced.
Tsukiyumi
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 21747
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Forward Torpedo Tube Twenty. Help!
Contact:

Re: Civilian Ships

Post by Tsukiyumi »

Here's one good example.
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
stitch626
2 Star Admiral
2 Star Admiral
Posts: 9585
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:57 pm
Location: NY
Contact:

Re: Civilian Ships

Post by stitch626 »

Ah, yes. Nothing like that is sold in our area. Instead, any "armoured" cars sold here are simply the same vehicle with a few mm of steel instead of thin metal + fiberglass.
No trees were killed in transmission of this message. However, some electrons were mildly inconvenienced.
User avatar
Captain Seafort
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 15548
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Civilian Ships

Post by Captain Seafort »

stitch626 wrote:Ah, yes. Nothing like that is sold in our area. Instead, any "armoured" cars sold here are simply the same vehicle with a few mm of steel instead of thin metal + fiberglass.
From this, I think the problem is one of terminology. An armoured car is not a civvie car with armour - it's one of these.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 35635
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:04 am
Commendations: The Daystrom Award
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Civilian Ships

Post by Mikey »

Excepting things like the presidential limo, the main difference between an armored car and a regular one is the bullet-resistant glass and the rubberized, driveable rims.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
Post Reply