Holographic Economy

[Mikey]

Perhapse because that's what people want. If you built a movie theater to get people to come but then all you had to show them was Youtube clips unless they brought their own how well would that do against someone who let you bring your own but also had the latest block busters on tap? Hell, we know he had programs available but that's it.

To be an accurate analogy, you'd have to compare a modern movie theater (analogous to Quark's) with some fictional theater at which they created new movies continuously.

Again, it's not all about paying. Some things will charge, but many will not.

Then what's the question? I say "pay" to denote any transfer of money or commodities.

That said it's all about how you want to spend your time. Do you want to spend your time on the holodeck mucking around with the program and getting it just right or would you rather use someone else's stuff?

Holop[rograms seem to be more personal than film or theater. Someone else's stuff will naturally be tailored to... someone else.

..Now imagine you don't just flip through the choices the computer offers but insist on getting something exactly right. I don't have a problem seeing that taking a good bit of time and in this set up you're paying for that holodeck time.

Now, though, you're paying for someone else's vision, so you still don't have everything jsut the way you'd want.

Barclay could have spent all his non-holodeck free time making his programs. Frankly I wouldn't find that hard to believe. Worf might have decided to spend a few hours getting his program just right, as a Klingon he probably had to as his idea of a workout is not what I'd expect the Federation standard to be. Neither of them was occupied 24/7 with their job, and we have no real idea how they spent their down time, which on a Starfleet vessel I'm guessing your options are more limited than in other places.

So, the time is available to fine-tune your own programs..

[Tyyr]

To be an accurate analogy, you'd have to compare a modern movie theater (analogous to Quark's) with some fictional theater at which they created new movies continuously.

If the movies you can create would be as good as a professional one then yes. However I think its safe to say that's not always the case. No matter what the creative endeavour some people will always be better at it.

That still doesn't address the issue I raised that perhapse people demand new professional content and if Quark wants his holosuites to stay booked he needs to provide it.

Then what's the question? I say "pay" to denote any transfer of money or commodities.

The terminology's wrong. If you go to a website, download a file, and then go use it did you "pay" for it? While I'm suggesting that some places will charge for what they provide there will be a significant amount of free content out there.

Holop[rograms seem to be more personal than film or theater. Someone else's stuff will naturally be tailored to... someone else.

Except that you've got examples of holo-novels. Picard didn't precisely tailor the Dixon Hill stories to what he wanted. He took what someone else had done and used it.

On top of that you're missing the core of the idea. I'm not really suggesting that what you're getting is just a holoprogram, packaged and unchanged. That would be part of it but just as much it would be about getting all the little things you want in your program. For instance a specific dress, a 1930's radio, a treehouse, a teenage mutant ninja turtle character, whatever. Things you can use in your own personal program. For instance instead of just saying, "Brunette," Riker could have specified a particular brunette that he already had the file for, or a particular Jazz joint.

Now, though, you're paying for someone else's vision, so you still don't have everything jsut the way you'd want.

And when you've got a group of people as large as the Federation there's a good chance someone's vision is pretty close to yours. For a lot of people getting it pretty close will suit them. Riker was happy with Minuet the way she was, other's might not be.

So, the time is available to fine-tune your own programs..

But do you have the skill? Or do you want to spend that time?

Going back to what this is based off, modern video games. Take a look at Second Life. The tools to make whatever it is you want exist. If you want you can get your hands on everything you need in order to create anything you want. Do people do it? No, the vast majority of users go looking for something that someone else has made and use that. Could they do it themselves? Sure, there's nothing stopping them. So why don't they do it? For most its time. Sitting in front of a computer and spending hours modeling the pair of shoes they want isn't their idea of a good time. They could be playing the game or doing something else with that time. They also know that to get really good with it will take a lot of time. So instead of doing that they go look for something that someone else has already created that's either close to what they want or just something they like and use that.

Same thing for the holodeck. For some people they'd rather use something that's already been created than invest their free time in trying to perfect their exact vision. Some people don't even have an exact vision.

[Mikey]

perhaps people demand new professional content

My emphasis - there's the rub. That also means by implication that perhaps they don't.

there will be a significant amount of free content out there.

And I repeat that if that's the case, what's the point of the discussion?

He took what someone else had done and used it.

I don't recall anything stating that Picard didn't program that himself.

I'm not really suggesting that what you're getting is just a holoprogram, packaged and unchanged. That would be part of it but just as much it would be about getting all the little things you want in your program. For instance a specific dress, a 1930's radio, a treehouse, a teenage mutant ninja turtle character, whatever. Things you can use in your own personal program. For instance instead of just saying, "Brunette," Riker could have specified a particular brunette that he already had the file for, or a particular Jazz joint.

OK, now I'm closer to being on baord with you.

For a lot of people getting it pretty close will suit them. Riker was happy with Minuet the way she was, other's might not be.

This seems to contradict your idea that people need these services because they're unsatisifed with "close enough."

But do you have the skill? Or do you want to spend that time?

Going back to what this is based off, modern video games. Take a look at Second Life. The tools to make whatever it is you want exist. If you want you can get your hands on everything you need in order to create anything you want. Do people do it? No, the vast majority of users go looking for something that someone else has made and use that. Could they do it themselves? Sure, there's nothing stopping them. So why don't they do it? For most its time. Sitting in front of a computer and spending hours modeling the pair of shoes they want isn't their idea of a good time. They could be playing the game or doing something else with that time. They also know that to get really good with it will take a lot of time. So instead of doing that they go look for something that someone else has already created that's either close to what they want or just something they like and use that.

Same thing for the holodeck. For some people they'd rather use something that's already been created than invest their free time in trying to perfect their exact vision. Some people don't even have an exact vision.

Judigng by the number of people who created their own holoprograms who weren't professional holo-authors or programmers, I'd say that this is less of an issue than coding video games is today.

[Tyyr]

My emphasis - there's the rub. That also means by implication that perhaps they don't.

Which leaves us in the position that there's insufficient evidence for either side to call a conclusion based off Quark's holosuites.

That kind of thing, where there's just a bit of a teaser about something that could be bigger is the kind of thing that gets my world building impulses going.

And I repeat that if that's the case, what's the point of the discussion?

My use of the word economy was obviously a poor one. The point of the discussion is whether or not a system like what we see today with general entertainment content might still exist in the future. I see it as a blending of several media but my idea revolves a lot around video game content creation. Frankly I thought "economy" might encompass the overall concept of the network of interactions but apparently it's getting int the way of the discussion.

I don't recall anything stating that Picard didn't program that himself.

Conceded.

Again, I'd point to this as another of those ambiguous details hanging out there that makes me want to fill the details in.

For a lot of people getting it pretty close will suit them. Riker was happy with Minuet the way she was, other's might not be.

This seems to contradict your idea that people need these services because they're unsatisifed with "close enough."

Not really. It's a different bench mark for everyone. I know I harp on Riker in 011011100000111100011010110101 but it's a great example. In Riker's case he was fine with Minuet as is. The next person might not be. For Riker she was close enough, for someone else she's not. Brunette_362436 might be close enough for the next guy though.

Here's a personal example. I used to play WoW. The character skins were... meh. For some people those defaults were close enough. Personally I went hunting and found a skin that I liked and used that. Heck I went a step farther and actually tweaked the tattoos just a bit. I didn't have the skill to perfectly make what I was imagining but I was able to find one really close to what I liked to download and then tweak just a bit to get really close to what I wanted.

Judigng by the number of people who created their own holoprograms who weren't professional holo-authors or programmers, I'd say that this is less of an issue than coding video games is today.

I'm not a professional author and I write. They don't have to be pros. In fact I'd say that people who use the holodeck regularly are far more likely to get into customizing things than those who only wander in once in a while. Next let me first say that I am in no way using these examples as support for my proposal, only showing how they could fit it. Worf's programs are definitely Klingon, but he might have downloaded the characters and enviornments he used and combined them into his own particular program. Maybe he grabbed "Klingon Warrior pack 32" "Klingon Warrior AI 3XC" "Klingon Temple 5461G" "Pain Stick circa 2304" "Klingon Weapons pack," etc. and used them to help make his own program. Just throwing it out there.