Andorians and Environment

[Tyyr]

So I've been pondering something I've been writing and I recalled a little detail I'd forgotten. Andoria is an icy planet as established in Enterprise. Obviously this was ill thought out as there's no evidence prior to the Aenar episode that establishes it. Archer stands on an Andorian ship perfectly comfortably. Andorians walk around Enterprise in their uniforms without sweating and showing signs of heat stress.

So would it make any sense that an Andorian crewman would have a chill suit under their uniform? Something to keep their body temp down? Or at this point are we just assuming Andorians have an amazing ability to tolerate far higher temperatures than you'd expect them to?

[Teaos]

We might assume metabolisum manipulation. An Andorian is about to go onto a Human ship they take a shot that helps their body regulate temperature a lot better, burns through energy.

Same thing with humans, their body gets a temporary turbo charge so they can stand the cold.

[Mikey]

In non-canon speculation, Andorians are given a peculiarly large range of comfortable environmental conditions. Also, I never got the idea that the moon Andoria was supposed to be that cold; there was talk of a famous icebreaker surface ship for which Shran's vessel was named. I'd guess it would be more like introducing a Cro-Magnon into a modern, Earth-temperate climate - no big deal, really.

[Bryan Moore]

Perhaps the antennae have something to do with it. Rabbits vent heat through their ears when hot, and their ears often vary in temperature greatly. It's fully possible that the antennae have heat dispersion properties as well?

[Graham Kennedy]

It's fairly stupid that all the major races just happen to be comfortable in the same environment as Humans. Vulcans should be shivering all the time, and moaning about how the light isn't red enough. Andorians should be sweating like crazy. But not only are both comfy on Earth ships, both maintain that exact environment on their own ships.

Best I can think of is what was suggested earlier; these other species are comfy in their own environment, but just happen to have a much wider tolerance range than humans do. Doesn't make that much sense, really, but there you go. Just one of those "it's a TV show!" things.

[Tyyr]

I was afraid of that. To be honest I find it damned boring that any effort to make these species different is constantly undermined. "Yeah, they come from an ice world but it's ok, they're just fine in a temp 25 to 30 degrees C over what they're accustomed to. I think I may be a contrary jerk and give my Andorian a cooler suit just because that's the way I'd prefer it to be. Hell, go all the way and give my Vulcan a heater suit and contacts to filter the light a bit.

[Mikey]

I was serious - why does Andoria have to be that cold? You wouldn't have to put an Inuit in a cooler suit if he were visiting Georgia.

[Tyyr]

I'm pretty sure Shran talked about seeing planets where liquid water was common. That would indicate that it's not on Andoria, and therefore the average surface temp is below freezing. As for why, well it's one thing if a species decides to live in an inhospitable place and uses tools to help them adapt, it's an entirely different thing for them to have evolved in such an environment. If they evolved there they should have adaptations for such a climate that would not require the use of skills they don't have.

[Mikey]

The Inuit, or the Lapps, etc., have lived where they do long enough to have altered their genomes to reflect their environments. Hell, the Vikings were able to settle areas that are now known as beach resorts.

[Tyyr]

Except that the Lapps and the Inuit did not start off in a very cold climate, Andorians ostensibly did. There should be some evidence of cold weather adaptations yet they appear to be no more outwardly capable of surviving at temperatures near freezing than we do. You'd expect something that looks like cold weather adaptations insulating body hair, insulating fat deposits, a compact body shape targeted at reducing surface area. A species that evolved in cold temperatures is going to be set up to operate in those temperatures. Take them out of it and those adaptations may no longer work and can even be counter productive leading to excessive overheating.

For example, put on thick heavy clothes that will keep you warm and doing fine at freezing temperatures. Now wear those same clothes when its the middle of summer. The adaptation that allowed you to survive just fine in the cold is now working against you and overheating you. If the thick heavy clothes are a part of you, like they'd be if Andorians evolved on their cold planet, you'd need some kind of cooling mechanism to help you stay cool enough to function.

Taking an Inuit and putting him in Georgia is a poor example. Take a boy from Georgia and stick him in a 150 degree hotbox and see how long he lasts. That's a better example.

[Mikey]

they appear to be no more outwardly capable of surviving at temperatures near freezing than we do.

Really? In which ep did we see an Andorian out in the elements in such an environment?

Listen - I don't disagree with the idea that 'Trek writing gets lazy about this sort of thing. All I'm saying is that in the example you gave of Andorians, there isn't necessarily as much about which to complain. And, the Inuit example is a better one - we're talking about someone from an arctic clime (like an Inuit, or Andorian) and putting htem in a temperate-to-subtropical clime. My point has been that there's no reason at all to assume that conditions on Andoria are significantly colder than those at Earth's arctic or antarctic regions.

Gravity should be another issue, as Andoria is a moon and presumably not Earth-mass...

[stitch626]

Or its just a big moon of a very big planet.

[Mikey]

That's the idea, as Andor is supposedly a gas giant, but I don't think we've ever heard a comparison for Andoria one way or the other.

[Tyyr]

Really? In which ep did we see an Andorian out in the elements in such an environment?

The Aenar episode actually. Shran is as bundled up as Archer is while they go tromping through the caverns. And yes, even I will admit that it is not conclusive proof of anything as we don't know where the Aenar settlement was located, it could have been at one of the poles.

Listen - I don't disagree with the idea that 'Trek writing gets lazy about this sort of thing. All I'm saying is that in the example you gave of Andorians, there isn't necessarily as much about which to complain. And, the Inuit example is a better one - we're talking about someone from an arctic clime (like an Inuit, or Andorian) and putting htem in a temperate-to-subtropical clime.

No it's not. While the Inuit have started to show some traits of better adaptation for arctic living they are still very much based off a species that is built for temperate climates. If the Inuit start to walk around in freezing temperatures (~0 degrees Celcius) in shorts and a t-shirt then I will accept them as a good example as to what we're talking about. Until then I maintain that taking someone from a temperate climate and putting them in conditions a full fifty degrees F, or 30 degrees C over the norm is more in line with an Andorian serving on a Federation ship.

My point has been that there's no reason at all to assume that conditions on Andoria are significantly colder than those at Earth's arctic or antarctic regions.

And I don't. I am assuming that the average mean temperature is roughly equivalent to freezing since liquid water is not completely unknown to Andorians just not common. In those temperatures your average unprotected human, Inuit or otherwise, is just plain fucked. An Andorian, if they actually evolved on their own planet, shouldn't be.

Gravity should be another issue, as Andoria is a moon and presumably not Earth-mass...

...huh? The definition of a moon has nothing to do with size, just that it's orbiting a planetary body and not the system's star. There's no reason that since its a moon it can't be roughly Earth sized or have an Earth equivalent gravitational field.